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This bothers me more every year. To circumvent the issur of sitting in a regular chair in shul on Tisha B’Av, people carry low-slung beach chairs that come complete with comfy cushions and headrests. These chairs are lower to the ground that regular chairs, true, but they are also extremely comfortable to sit in. Tisha B’Av is not supposed to be about being comfortable. You are supposed to be in aveilos and aveilim don’t sit in Tommy Bahamas beach chairs. When I was a kid, if you weren’t sitting in the floor, you maybe had a box, the kind that people who were sitting shiva sat on. How people can bring beach chairs to shul on Tisha B’Av is beyond me. I imagine that the rabbonim of these shuls don’t want to speak up because of fear of losing mispallelim to other ships.
Have you ever sat in one in shul?
I saw this last year for the first time and thought it inappropriate.
I also grew up in a shul where we sat on faux wood grain cardboard boxes that the funeral directors use to provide for those in aveilus.
In the shul I attended yesterday the long cushions were removed from the pews and placed along the walls. I sat on the 3” high cushion with my back against the wall for support.
The only one who brought in a low beach chair was the 80 year old Rav, he explained that he needed the arms on the chair in order to be able to get up at chatzos.“I imagine that the rabbonim of these shuls don’t want to speak up because of fear of losing mispallelim to other ships [sic].”
I imagine that the rabbonim of these shuls don’t want to speak up because there are certainly more important things to worry about these days than what people are sitting on one day a year..
There are 5 inuyim that are assur on Yom Kippur, which are carried forward to Tisha B’Av. Being uncomfortable when you sit is not one of them. The reason we sit low is because it is a sign of availus and has nothing to do with comfort. Do you begrudge aveilim the chairs provided by misaskim?
Sitting low as a sign of aveilus, not being uncomfortable.
5TResident,
You comment “I imagine that the rabbonim of these shuls don’t want to speak up because of fear of losing mispallelim to other ships.” There is a much bigger issue with people going on ships during the 9 days, and Tish B’Av than using a low chair in shul.
So dont use them.
Maybe they have a hard time sitting on the floor and need some support, so at least like this theyre not sitting on a regular chair.
Halacha is halacha, ‘spirit’ halacha is between them and Hashem.And I think you are vastly overestimating how comfortable they are. More then the floor or a crate? Definitely. But I’d still prefer a normal chair.
I was near a Rav this year. He actually came in a couple of minutes late to davening. He hasn’t been well, and sometimes has been davening at home because of it. When I saw him walk in, I immediately offered to get him a regular chair, because I know he can’t sit on the floor due to his health. He accepted. I tried to take it to the front of the room (we davened in the kiddush room to give more space for people on the floor), but he said no, and wanted to sit near the back.
After he finished shemonah esrei, he asked someone else who was sitting on a milk crate if there was an extra one. The man gave him one, and he sat on it, but with it standing up on it’s side, not face down. This left it as high as a regular chair. The man offered the Rav something to put on top of it, to make it more comfortable. The Rav declined, and said, “I can’t sit on the floor, let me at least feel some discomfort from the crate!”I agree! I finally convinced my Ruv that based on the olden days it’s completely inappropriate to use Air Conditioning or electric lights (the modern ones that give off very little heat) on Tisha B’Av as it’s “too comfortable”
We turn off the A/C & use candles (to add heat to the heat & increase the discomfort). Indoor plumbing on Tisha B’Av? Chas V’Shalom! Our youth group built an outhouse (smells & all) out back special for Tisha B’Av.
A Holocaust survivor who used to be a carpenter built a Kosher wooden chair to sit on & all was well. UNTIL he put a cushion on the seat. We immediately threw him & his chair out the window while shouting “Goy, Goy, Goy Avek!!”
The truth is my Ruv told me not to Daven there on Tisha B’Av. He explained that I am the only member that enjoys his sermons so it’s inappropriate due to the joy i get. But everyone else that abhors his speeches earn extra Zichusim sitting not just through an agonizing 30 minute Shabbos drasha but hours of the Ruv’s ramblings.
p s.
1. Whether in NY or elsewhere EVERY Avel chair I’ve seen has padded seats & backs, & armrests to make it more comfortable. The only difference between a regular comfortable chair & an Avel chair? Shorter legs.
2. Rabbis of Frum Shuls who won’t speak up out of fear of losing Mispallelim don’t deserve the title “Rabbi”Unfortunately. 5town is a good example of making up an issur that isn’t there and then looking down on both the Rav and the mispallilim. At “best”, it’s a chumra.
Our chevra kadisha, like others, gives cushioned chairs for shiva that are low to the ground. There is no requirement for discomfort. I can’t imagine what it was like years ago to sit on those cardboard boxes for hours with no back support.Maybe talk to Misaskim about their beach chairs that they give out to batei aveilim?
The degree of nitpicking here is awesome. People have their own way of feeling and expressing the pain, sorrow and sense of availus associated with Tish B’av and the overall sense of despair given the trauma confronting yidden in EY and the world in general. Giving musar over the seating options chosen by some while they listen to eicha is pathetic and says a lot about the “baal musar”. .
@OP,
I got to congratulate you, you came a long way, your last two post were pleas for emunah and bitochon and now you graduated to mundane topics like what style chairs people sit on during tisha bav.
Congratulations!“I imagine that the rabbonim of these shuls don’t want to speak up because of fear of losing mispallelim to other ships.”
That’s a fast run from Churban sensitivity to joining forces with the causes of it. Perhaps your criticism stems from a natural judgmental tendency along with some rightful sensitivity. Leave other people alone.
If it were a Halachah then you can speak up or be Me’orer. If it is a matter of sensitivity then if you have a position of authority, you are out to help people grow, and you understand that your method will help them, go ahead and give it a shot.
Well, bringing your _own_ beach chair is better than sitting on a milk crate that has written “do not take outside of the store” across it.
“The reason we sit low is because it is a sign of availus and has nothing to do with comfort.”
This is absolutely incorrect
See Yoreh Deah hilchos aveilus
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