Updating our heating system

A few thoughts:

1- Did you consider a wood burning stove, or wood pellet burning stove instead of oil/gas? Wood is a renewable heating resource.

2- If your oil tank is in the ground- when you decommission your oil tank, consider removing it entirely instead of filling it with sand. Leaving it in the ground could lead to ground water contamination when the tank corrodes, and later- possibly, collapse.

3- I can’t recommend a specific gas system, but a home energy expert told me that there are systems with incredible efficiency. He said (he might have been exaggerating) that if your system is more than 4 years old it is stone-age in relative efficiency. Sounds like it was worthwhile to wait until 82 years instead of 78 🙂

Ron, we did not get indirect hot water with the system. We did order a new AO Smith hot water tank which cost about $750 with installation.

The indirect is twice as much money and the installation costs more too.

If you have an old steam system, you may want to consider changing over to a water system also. When we replaced our boiler which was also ancient (it was coal converted to oil converted to gas) we looked into it. It was approximately $1,500-$2,000 more for the system which including laying the new pipes needed. The plus is that it does not require the big pipe in the basement. The unkown factor in it is the cost of repairing the walls which the plumber will not do.

Squeak,

based on the research (anicdotal, not scientific) we were told that the system keeps the house and a more even temperature and for longer. i.e. there is less problems of the first floor being boiling and the second floor cold.) We were also told that the operating cost could be less. It also had the advantage of being quiter, i.e. no loud noises in the middle of the night when the system kicks on because it’s cold and the steam escapes from the valves. There is also always a potential problem when changing boilers in a stema system that the change could create knocking noises for which there is basically nothing that can be done. We kept the steam system and had a good plumber install it and did not have knowcking noises (although the plumber did not guarantee that it won’t happen) If you are only changing the boiler, keep in mind that you will have a new boiler with 80 year old pipes. At some time those pipes will need to be replaced.

rescue37 & ronsr,

Thank you. I can see how the advantages depend on your situation. For example, a person who is not used to the noises might consider steam a big disadvantage. Or someone with children might appreciate having lower temperature heat source.

My comments on steam are also anecdotal and not scientific- but my entire Methuselain life I have had steam.

– Why do you say steam needs two pipes? There is only ONE connection to the radiator, as opposed to hot water radiators which require 2.

– New steam boilers have automatic refill technology, so no need to refill manually.

– How in the world does hot water travel to the 2nd or 3rd floor without a pump? I never knew this was possible.

The noise doesn’t bother me, I find it welcome. And I’ve been told that steam can be cheaper than hot water, so it seems like the answer is different depending on who you ask (and what he is trying to sell :))

The issue of size is determined by a heat loss calculation. It is basically a measurement of all your heat loss surfaces ( walls ceilings windows doors) mutltiplied by known values for material/insulative value. At the end you get a BTU load for a typical maximum heat diff between outside and what you want inside. If a contractor does’nt do the arithmetic, ask him to, and if he does’nt know what you are talking about and rule of thumbs the job, fine a brainier operator.

Changing from steam to water is more efficient because of the efficiency losses of phase change and higher temps of steam. There are also more critical error that can be made unless you have a quality moomche.

The very best system if you can find someone to do it right is continuous circ. In this system, the pump always runs, the radiator temps are kept from tepid to warm, never hot. This makes the radiant effect of the radiator much higher, (comfort) doesnt stir up dust, reduces burn risk, and actually is most efficient except for the electrical load of the pump. The pump also lasts longer running at lower temp and continuously rather than start/stop, and the run of the boiler is controlled primarily by the thermostat, which is the most accurate part of the system. This is great for very large houses with high volume systems.

Squeak: there were several ways to do steam, some two pipe, and the science of how these work is a nearly lost art. Big, old, large pipe systems that worked by gravity only: hot water rises, cold water falls, all in big pipe with asbestos insulation. They worked without pumps, and some gas systems worked on milivolt contol that the pilot generated itself. In steam, this could be a electric less system. There were coal feeders that worked on thermal expasion/ contration of a bimetal sensor, and chains that also worked “by themselves” The laws of physics is a beautiful thing.

In a steam to water convert, some old radiators on steam don’t have the requisite tappings.

Lastly, good double pane windows, attic and walls insulated to the max, (and a tyvek house wrap if you are residing) are one time expenses that forever reduce your energy needs and have no moving parts (except windows)

As you might sense, this was my bread and butter before I moved to Jerusalem, where I can have tomatoes on the vine in January, but almost no heating business. L’toeles harabim, you can reach me for advice if the Mod lets.