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is plastic surgery (and skydiver for that matter) a frum profession? or even “mutar”?
Chofetz Chaim encountered someone selling newspaper (a blog advertiser in modern times). He asked how is parnosah, turns out it was so-so. So, Ch Ch suggested that his friend can offer a beter job. Which one? A friend is a priest and he needs someone to once in a while to ring the church bell …
The Jew was shocked by the offer, but Ch Ch explained that this is still more honorable than selling newspapers.
Common Saychel,
I think using common saychel someone would understand that @AAQ was referring to those Plastic Surgeons who do elective enhancements as their practice.
AAQ: Other than selling ad space for some prtizus media, there is no reason why a yid should not be able to engage in media marketing given that virtually all marketing sales are migrating to online platforms which can micro-target the intended audience and in some cases also measure positive response rates. I don’t think the Chofetz Chayim (sorry, but the acronym is a bit odd) had contemplated selling ads for doggie beds to the “My Pillow Guy” on OAN or something like that).
Dear Gadol,
I’m shocked that you would limit what the Great Chofetz Chaim could have foreseen.
shochet in pig farm
nomes0rah: It might be apikorsus, but I respectfully submit that even the heilege Chofetz Chayim would not have been supportive of any Yid marketing air time to the Pillow Guy. As I’m sure you are aware, he always wears a tzelem on his lapel and his most recent ads show him at his desk with a weird painting of Xxxst in the background.
What may not be so widely known is that R’ Kagan MAY have been among the first of gadolei yisroel and the 20th century Roshei Yeshivos to get his semicha online (or technically “by wire”) when he encountered a legal requirement for documentation to list his “occupation” as “Rabbi” in order to obtain a passport. According to one biography, he arranged for a “semicha by wire (aka telegram) from R’ Grodzinski, the av beis din of Vilna.Skydiving for sport may possibly be osur, the stats are between 1 fatality for every 100,000 jumps to one in 500 K. Need to ask a shaila if that is considered a risk.
However there is a big mekor in the gemoro and poskim to allow a much higher danger wehn done for parnosso.
ויעוין בנודע ביהודה (מהדורא תנינא יו”ד סימן י) שנשאל האם מותר ליהודי להתעסק בציד חיות. והשיב’ הציד לשם שעשוע יש בו [נוסף לשאר האיסורים] איסור מצד מה שנאמר בתורה ‘ונשמרתם מאד לנפשותיכם’ (דברים ד טו). ומי לנו גדול ובקי בצידה יותר מעשו שהכתוב מעיד עליו ‘ויהי עשו איש יודע ציד איש שדה’ (בראשית כה כז) ובכל זאת אמר על עצמו ‘הנה אנכי הולך למות’ (שם לב), ופירש הרמב”ן שהכוונה הפשוטה במלים אלו היא שעשו סיכן עצמו כל יום בין גדודי חיות. ומעתה, איך יכניס עצמו איש יהודי למקום גדודי חיות רעות.
אלא שצייד עני העוסק בצידה למחייתו התירה התורה, כמו שמותר לסוחרים לעבור אורחות ימים בגלל הפרנסה. והתורה אמרה ‘ואליו הוא נושא את נפשו’ (דברים כד טו). ואמרו חז”ל בבבא מציעא דף קיב ע”א מפני מה זה עלה בכבש ונתלה באילן ומסר את עצמו למיתה, לא על שכרו?. אבל מי שאין עיקר כוונתו למחייתו, ומתאוות לבו הוא הולך למקום גדודי חיות, עובר על ‘ונשמרתם מאד לנפשותיכם’.
So even bull-fighting might be permitted if done strictly as a career, not as a sport.
וכעין זה מבואר גם בשו”ת אגרות משה (חו”מ ח”א סימן קד) שדן האם מותר להתפרנס ממשחק זריקת הכדורים, וכתב שם להתיר מסוגין דאמרינן ואליו הוא נושא את נפשו, מפני מה עלה זה בכבש ונתלה באילן ומסר את עצמו למיתה, לא על שכרו? וכתב לפרש דאיירי בסכנה רחוקה, והותרה לצורך פרנסה. והוסיף, שבזה מותר לא רק לסכן את עצמו, אלא גם לסכן אחרים. שהרי גם להרוג את עצמו אסור משום ‘לא תרצח’, וכמו שהותר בו כך גם הותר באחרים, ובתנאי שהם יודעים שהם בסכנה והסכימו לזה.
So skydiving, deep-sea-diving and mercenary are all fine honest professions, but personally, I prefer to live off lottery winsCommon, thanks, I was not aware about what share is for trauma. Still caution is required in professions where lucrative deals are questionable morally. Will you be satisfied to work for the trauma hospital, when your colleagues earn easy money the other way. Similarly, say, in jo s where you can get profitable business representing Russian or Chinese clients. Or construction where you may not even be able to compete without employing illegals. I am not a bokeh in these professions, just highlighting issues in choosing professions.
Gadol, I am not sure how all these technology advances change the issue. If you facilitate improper information reach their audience, it may be a problem. Possibly, if you’re a platform for business, you can say that rov of your clients are kosher.
Dear Gadol,
I was not awawre of Lindel always wearing a tzelem. That would definitely deter The Chafetz Chaim from being aware of him, even prophetically. Respectful Apikorsim are always allowed their opinions. Especially if they sign their posts with such a disclaimer.
The episode with the semicha was in part due to ravs humility never obtaining credentials and also, I think when he was running from Soviet Russia to Lita in the 1920s, so pikuach nefesh overrode humility. He actually paskened that it was pikuach nefesh when he asked his s-i-l to go get the vids on Friday, and sil replied yes, I’ll take first train on Sunday, but rav said: no. Please go on shabbos. Incidentally, he later regretted the decision to save his life at the expense of abandoning others, as all rabbis left and remaining Jews had no support. This is relevant to some other discussions about how to relate to nonreligious Jews especially from USSR
Nomesorah; they’re allowed their opinions and we’re allowed to indirectly kill them under normal circumstances.
Even now, we don’t mourn them and we daven 3x a day for Hashem to “utterly destroy them”, in birchas haminim, the blessing of the heretics, whether they’re respectful or not.
Reshoim we daven to do teshuva. Apikorsim we daven should be eternally condemned. Their evil is a very different sort.
Dear Avira,
Are you canceling Mr. Lindell?
R Salanter encountered a serious apikoires in an inn and they decided to debate publicly. Rav suggested that the loser should don the jacket of the winner (that is conservative v modern style). The other guy agreed. Then rav took his off to show that he is ready to follow up whatever the outcome. The other guy refused. Then r Salanter refused to debate if the opponent was not serious about it.
N0m: Halacha is cancelling them. Avira is merely explaining the Halacha.
Mule-skinner.
Bridge owner.
@Common Syachel
No, the comment thread is about unusual professions for frum Jews. I did not see anything about muttar or ossur nor did opine on what is mutter or ossur, either for a plastic surgeon or for people looking to undergo such surgeries. Accordingly, my comment stands, it would seem that it would be clear to someone who really had common sense that AAQ was referring to specific type of plastic surgeon.
I’m guessing frum in the IDF all have unusual jobs being as they are in the military which is unusual.
Donkey driver.
Parole officer.
commonsaychel: you got me wondering how you got to meet so many probation and correction officers…. funnily, I don’t think I’ve met that many probation/correction officers, even counting all the non-jewish ones…..
“well if its usual then it not unusual, for example real estate or amazon sellers in very common, seeing a pilot with a yarmulke is not, being a member of the IDF is fairly common being a member of the US Marines is not.“
“Actually I know of 2 frum probation officers and 3 frum correction officers and 2 frum sheriff deputies“
It’s still unusual even according to your definition
Mall owner.
How about director of cyber security (I think that’s her title)
Sherpa
Dear Common,
You missed a bunch of everyday jobs in Lakewood. Maybe you could also venture out more
Drivers.
Sales.
Medical billing.
Shaimos.
Mohel.
Sefarim.
Construction.And now for the uncommon jobs that have frum yidden in Lakewood.
Firefighters.
City bus driver.
Garbage truck driver.
Farmer.
Security guard.
Ventriloquist.Census taker.
Remember that thread?
Javelin catcher. Historically, before the Holacaust, Poles would not allow Jews to participate in javelin-catch competitions. The Jews accepted this quietly, without any outward resistance, which the Poles misconstrued as complacency.
Being a Priest is definitely not an unusual occupation for Jews.
common saychel:
It just sounded suspicious…. it sounds eerily like you’ve spent some time in the one place where a person could meet a bunch of probation officers at any given moment….
2) I learn full day but I own a bunch of small properties, and run a side business in finance. My limited knowledge of the English language notwithstanding, I have been regularly writing articles (mainly Hebrew but also in English) which have been printed in a wide spectrum of publications.
‘Funnily’ enough, my spellchecker (Microsoft Office) changed ‘funnilly’ to ‘funnily’. So either my English is not all that bad, or else is is as bad as Bill Gates. The second option doesn’t worry me – rumor has it that Bill manages to make ends meet, and that he pays all his bills on time…..BTW, I’ve never been to Lakewood in my entire life…
Lakewood Avoider.
Online Response Of Chabad.
Extremely uncommon. It does not pay.
I know a frum women who designs clothing for a designer brand that’s sold in all major department stores.
A meter maid?
Is it a thing in Lakewood? This sounds like a profession, even as society might need some so that we all find a place to park, is based on walking around and annoying people for less than a perutah. Not sure who chooses this job. Seems worse than proverbial Roman-time tax collector. And it takes over a person. I once put a quarter into someone’s meter right before a metermaid prpared to write a ticket, and she gave me ayn hara for taking her parnosa away.
Dear Always,
I do not recall ever seeing a parking meter in Lakewood.
I just came across an expert on pink flying monkeys. Though I’m not sure he is frum enough to meet the criteria of this thread.
n0 > I do not recall ever seeing a parking meter in Lakewood.
True, me too. But I thought things changed with the growth. Glad to hear it did not.
n0 > I do not recall ever seeing a parking meter in Lakewood.
True, me too. But I thought things changed with the growth. Glad to hear it did not.
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