Understanding Lag Baomer

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  • #2187518
    ChatGPT
    Participant

    Absolutely! Here’s the updated poem:

    Lag BaOmer, oh joyous day!
    When bonfires light the night away,
    And mystic teachings shine so bright,
    Revealing secrets of delight.

    Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai,
    Whose wisdom lights up every sky,
    On this day, his spirit soars,
    And his teachings reach new shores.

    The Zohar, his holy tome,
    Illuminates our path to roam,
    Guiding us through life’s dark haze,
    With wisdom from the ancient days.

    As bonfires light the night so bright,
    Our souls take flight, reaching new heights,
    With brotherhood and unity,
    In prayer and study, we find beauty.

    Oh Lag BaOmer, teach us true,
    To love our fellow Jew, to pursue,
    A life of righteousness and grace,
    And find in Torah, our rightful place.

    Let us dance and sing with glee,
    Inspiring others to be free,
    To celebrate the joy of life,
    And overcome all pain and strife.

    Lag BaOmer, oh joyous day!
    May your light forever stay,
    And may we be inspired anew,
    To live a life that’s pure and true.

    #2187553
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Maybe, in order to rhyme better, make another change to reaching new height.

    #2188937
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Still without explanation.

    #2191358
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Midwesterner, the Genata in Brachos says that a Tzaddik can’t become a Rasha. Then, the Gemara asks your question from Yochanan Cohen Gadol and ends up saying that it is a Machlokes whether it is the same person.

    In Yoma 38 the Gemara says that once most of a person’s life went by without an Aveira he won’t go bad. There, the Gemara doesn’t ask anything. I found the Yismach Moshe, referenced in Yoma on Sefaria. The Yismach Moshe is in Re’eh.

    ืจื‘ื™ ืืœื™ืขื–ืจ ื‘ื ื• ืฉืœ ืจ’ ื™ื•ืกื™ ื”ื’ืœื™ืœื™ ืื•ืžืจ ืžื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ืš ื›ื•’. ื ”ืœ ื“ื”ื ื” ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืื—ืจ ืืžืจื• ื—ื–”ืœ (ื‘ืจื›ื•ืช ื›”ื˜.) ืืœ ืชืืžื™ืŸ ื‘ืขืฆืžืš ืขื“ ื™ื•ื ืžื•ืชืš, ืฉื”ืจื™ ื™ื•ื—ื ืŸ ื›ื”ืŸ ื’ื“ื•ืœ ืฉื™ืžืฉ ื‘ื›ื”ื•ื ื” ื’ื“ื•ืœื” ืฉืžื•ื ื™ื ืฉื ื” ื•ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื ืขืฉื” ืฆื“ื•ืงื™, ืืœืžื ื“ื”ืฉื™”ืช ืื™ืŸ ืžื•ื—ื” ื•ืื™ืŸ ืžื•ื ืข ืœื”ื‘ื—ื™ืจื” ื‘ืฉื•ื ืคืขื. ื•ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืื—ืจ ื“ืจืฉื• ืขืœ ืคืกื•ืง (ืฉืžื•ืืœ ื’ ื‘ ื˜) ืจื’ืœื™ ื—ืกื™ื“ื™ื• ื™ืฉืžื•ืจ, ื›ื™ื•ืŸ ืฉืขื‘ืจื• ืจื•ื‘ ืฉื ื•ืชื™ื• ืฉืœ ืื“ื ื•ืœื ื—ื˜ื, ืฉื•ื‘ ืœื ื™ื—ื˜ื (ื™ื•ืžื ื“ืฃ ืœ”ื—:). ื•ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื ืจืื™ืŸ ื›ืกื•ืชืจื™ืŸ ืืช ืขืฆืžืŸ. ื•ื™”ืœ ื“ืžืžื›ืฉื•ืœ ืฉื•ื’ื’, ื”ืฉื™”ืช ืฉื•ืžืจื• ื“ื—ื˜ื ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ืฉื•ื’ื’, ืื‘ืœ ืื ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ืจืฉื™ืข ื‘ืžื–ื™ื“, ื”ืฉื™”ืช ืื™ื ื• ืžื‘ื˜ืœ ื”ื‘ื—ื™ืจื”.

    He also answers that Hashem would protect him from a regular Aveira, but if he deviates in Hashkafa then he can still go sour. Similar to a ืชื•ื”ื” ืขืœ ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื•ืช who loses his earlier merit.

    #2283226
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Please bump.

    #2283950
    sechel83
    Participant

    in chabad chassidus its explained that lag beomer being the yom hilulah of rashbi, on that day he taught many things he never taught before that day, (because) that the final day of a righteous personโ€™s earthly life marks the point at which all their deeds, teachings and work achieve their culminating perfection and the zenith of their impact upon our lives. So each Lag BaOmer, we celebrate Rabbi Shimonโ€™s life and the revelation of the esoteric soul of Torah.
    penimius hatorah is a revelation of penemius atik – simple put, its a revelation of hashem’s light – or ein sof, (niglah is the torah the way it comes down to this world) when that light is revealed there are many supernatural things, thats why rashbi did wonders simply by saying torah (unlike other tanaim needed to daven) thats why on such a day, the rebbes – the neshama of rashbi and teachers of his torah – were able to give brachos for children in a sprcial way. see more about this in all the maamarim of lag beomer

    #2284800
    GadolHaolam
    Participant

    It’s origins are certainly shrouded in mystery. We know that in reality it was most likely not Rashbi’s birthday as this tradition seems to be based on nothing more than a typo (See Brodt), and the idea of it being the day of the students deaths seems weakly founded (as does that whole story to be frank. Many have suggested and successfully so, that their is more going on in the gemara’s discussion than met most eyes). That’s based on nothing but a Meiri (his only statement to be mentioned by others before his revival a few centuries later if i recall correctly), in the shrouded memory of a tradition from the geonim.
    And there’s definitely no need to examine any of the dubious “kabbalistic” explanations.
    Like many things, one should find his own meaning from the celebration rather than focusing on the true historical reasons for it’s practice.

    #2284833
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Gadol, if you’re here to spew anti kabalah, haskalah dribble, at least learn the meaning of the term “hilulah.” Hint – it is not “birthday.”

    Youre only proving that maskilim are woefully uneducated and merely parrot what they read from other maskilim, who themselves parrot from others.

    #2285033
    GadolHaolam
    Participant

    Haha Well it was equally unlikely to be either his birthday or day of death but yes I misspoke initially. Appreciate the correction.
    As for your other comment, It’s quite silly. All of education is about learning from others. The more one learns from others the more one can combine that information and find novel interpretations if he so chooses. That’s universally what education is.
    You contradict yourself. You ad hominem me with being “woefully uneducated”, and then mock the whole concept of education in its entirety. Do better.

    #2285448
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    By “woefully uneducated” i was referring not to secular education, but to chinuch. The fact that your mind goes straight to college when hearing the word “education” is exactly the issue here.

    It’s not “misspeaking,” it’s a conclusion you drew from seeinf people celebrating and not even bothering to get THEIR view of what they’re happy about. You rather went straight to the anti Torah blogs, which make you feel good about the life choices you’ve made.

    #2285467
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Not to mention your rejection of open statements in the rishonim regarding the cessation of the deaths of rebbe akivas talmidim.

    “More than met most eyes”

    Because your eyes are so much more enlightened than the rishonim with their primitive talmudic reasoning.

    Then you go and dismiss kabalah wholesale.

    Disgusting. No respect for the chain of mesorah whatsoever.

    #2285481
    GadolHaolam
    Participant

    There is no apparent difference between the term ‘Chinuch’ and ‘Education’ besides origin. I’m unclear as to your meaning here.

    Ah yes, I perfectly fit this frankly bad projection of some alien observer who interprets every part of frum culture through the lens of these supposed anti-torah blogs. I’m simultaneously justifying my anti-torah life choices, while never knowing the torah approach in the first place.

    Perhaps instead of these bad attempts at playing Holmes, we grant the more likely possibility that I misspoke exactly as I claimed happened. You should just know to aid you in these future virtual detective works, that whatever “anti-torah blogs” you are referring to, they likely don’t have much of a market for those who aren’t initially acquainted with the concepts they are dismantling.

    #2285517
    smerel
    Participant

    >>>whatever โ€œanti-torah blogsโ€ you are referring to, they likely donโ€™t have much of a market for those who arenโ€™t initially acquainted with the concepts they are dismantling.

    And they have even less of a market among those who are actually acquainted with the concepts they are attempting to dismantle. Their target audience is those who have vague knowledge but no actual in depth knowledge of what they are discussing.

    #2285511
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Talmidim of rav shlomo zalman aurbach write that once he and kapach were at a wedding, where kapach was supposed to be a witness, and rav shlomo zalman, the mesader kidushin. Knowing that kapach was pasul l’aidus, but not wanting to cause a scene or offend him needlessly, he said “it’s not befitting your kovod for me to be mesader and you a witness… let’s change places,” since there is no requirement that a mesader kidushin be…. anything.

    And yes, as the sonei Torah are quick to point out, rav ovadia yosef writes that kapach is not an apikores. He also had to deal with him on a regular basis. He couldn’t refuse to answer, either. So he wrote something which was dan lekaf zchus; what is he to do if he finds things in kabalah which to him sound like avodah zara? It’s not his fault.

    Of course, it’s very much his fault, because he wasn’t living under a rock. He knew full well how many gedolei yisroel – all of them, including in Yemen, had accepted kabalah. Rav ovadia didn’t say that denying them would be acceptable. He found a very expedient way to avoid a very messy machlokes with a person who had zero regard for talmidei chachamim, which would have jeopardized his mission of spreading Torah among a very neglected part of klal yisroel.

    #2285509
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    If the vilna gaon believes something is part of Torah, and a blog is against it, then they are by definition anti torah. Not “supposedly.”

    The only people who wear fabric on their head that deny kabalah are maskilim. Not one group of Jews who traces back to gedolei achronim has any issue with kabalah as a whole.

    Some, like yekkies, do not incorporate it into their yiddishkeit very much, because of their experience with false messiahs. But they used to, very, very much (the kav hayashar was rov in Frankfort)

    It’s not detective work. People are drawn to minus, as chazal say “minus shaani, demashchi” minus is different, because it draws people. It’s an old yatzer hora, but it exploded in recent centuries and had a resurgence on the Internet, which gives every sonei Torah a platform to think they’re “dismantling” Torah concepts.

    Dvar Hashem is not “dismantled.” It appeals to people who wish to justify things they do. Especially because they know that certain aveiros are considered the most chamur (in shulchan aruch, who also accepted kabalah!) because of statements in the zohar and kisvei arizal. Some people are tortured by guilt, and it becomes a lot easier if they just wisk away that part of the Torah.

    For others, it’s just plain gaavah. They think they literally are on the same level as rishonim and achronim who universally accepted kabalah as Torah misinai. Yes, some questioned exactly how much of the zohar was written by rebbe shimon bar yochai, or his talmidim, or talmidei talmidim, but no one whose name you’ll find in the mishnah berurah questioned its truth.

    Of course, there’s kapach. Who was extremely influenced by his years at university; imagine being an innocent yemenite Jew who barely knows anything outside of the community, and suddenly you’re exposed to “new” ways of thinking…he succumbed to it. And he was toleh himself on what he thinks is the rambam; of course, achronim way before him preempt his machinations. The migdal oz, for one, and the abarbanel, who writes that the rambam in fact saw the zohar, and had charatah for being involved in philosophy, saying that had he had the zohar he never would have needed it.

    Either way, it’s chazir treif. And the most treif part of it is how nonchalantly you throw around your apikorsus, in an attempt to normalize kefirah in a public space. It’s dangerous.

    ื•ื›ืœ ื”ืžื™ื ื™ื ื›ืจื’ืข ื™ืื‘ื“ื•, we don’t even daven that such people do teshuva. We daven for the above, three times, each and every day.

    #2285623
    sechel83
    Participant

    @avira: interesting r’shlomo zalman didint want to offend someone he considered an apikores? so instead he was “chonef” him??
    ื•ืืžืจื• ืจื‘ื•ืชื™ื ื• ืขืœ ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ืื’ืจื™ืคืก ืฉื”ื™ื” ืงื•ืจื ื‘ืชื•ืจื”, ื•ื›ืฉื”ื’ื™ืข ืœืคืกื•ืง ื–ื” (ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื™ื– ื˜ื•): “ืœื ืชื•ื›ืœ ืœืชืช ืขืœื™ืš ืื™ืฉ ื ื›ืจื™”, ื–ืœื’ื• ืขื™ื ื™ื• ื“ืžืขื•ืช, ื•ืืžืจื• ืœื• “ืื—ื™ื ื• ืืชื””, (ืกื•ื˜ื” ืžื.): “ื‘ืื•ืชื” ืฉืขื” ื ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ื• ืฉื•ื ืื™ื”ื ืฉืœ ื™ืฉืจืืœ ื›ืœื™ื”, ืฉื—ื™ื ืคื• ืœื• ืœืื’ืจื™ืคืก”.
    see at length ืฉืขืจื™ ืชืฉื•ื‘ื” – ื›ืช ื”ื—ื ืคื™ื

    #2285622
    GadolHaolam
    Participant

    You are allowed to appoint a great Rabbi from a few centuries ago the arbiter of permitted thoughts in a millenia old religion. Others aren’t obligated to follow. Contrary to what you might wish to be true, there are a multitude of strains that constitute Orthodox Judaism. As for Hashem’s initial intentions that’s up to his being to decide.

    It’s a very easy and simplistic mindset to believe that everything that contradicts what you were raised to believe or adopted later in life, can be explained away with a whisk of the fingers.
    “Anyone that disagrees with me (and therein muddying the waters of what constitutes the right approach) must be heavily influenced by desire for forbidden sins, and their thought process must be rendered inconsequential.”
    -Imagine if we threw such heinous projections on every one of our great thinkers that said something that wasn’t word-for-word verbatim what his teacher taught him. We’d be very destitute indeed.
    It’s the same mindset that leads to any sort of conspiratorial thinking.

    #2285954
    smerel
    Participant

    >>>Itโ€™s the same mindset that leads to any sort of conspiratorial thinking.

    Quite an ironic comment coming from someone like yourself

    People like yourself who believe that the alleged then prevalent Greek thinking had an influence on Birchas Hasacher or that Lag Baomar was most likely not Rashbiโ€™s birthday as this tradition seems to be based on nothing more than a typo are openly believing in and promoting conspiracy theories…

    #2286235

    Speaking of lag bomer, I am not sure whether we are achieving any tikkun for the hesronos or akivas students by not shaving for about 24 extra days, 1 per thousand? Maybe, instead or in addition, we should accept upon ourselves to be respectful to other opinions for whole 49 days?

    #2286276
    GadolHaolam
    Participant

    You seem to be under a misapprehension of what constitutes a conspiracy theory. Objectively assessing the evidence and exploring the historical record utilizing the scientific method wouldn’t fit any definition of one. However, believing that something is true because the people in your social group believe it’s true, while ignoring the evidence that clearly displaces the justification for that belief, would be a little closer to one.

    #2286365
    smerel
    Participant

    >>>You seem to be under a misapprehension of what constitutes a conspiracy theory. etc

    You are saying the exact same thing everyone else who believes in conspiracy theories says too . They all say “we assessed the evidence and came to this conclusion. You only believe otherwise because that is what society has told you “

    #2286665
    GadolHaolam
    Participant

    True. To be fair none of these things would be technically conspiracies which would require the belief that some people secretly conspired to have some version of something be believed.
    So we are rather just discussing the historical facts and which case is more likely. It’s hard for many to assess this case objectively because they enter into this discussion with underlying beliefs about the world. If the (extremely malleable during youth) human brain is led to believe something at a young age, most of the time no amount of evidence will lead them to realize it’s in fact incorrect. There are other facts that influence the likelihood; For example if there is a large amount of people that he lives with that also share that belief, that’ll decrease the odds of his knowledge being updated. Or if he is someone who has a more rational/objective mind and one who is less adept at remaining at his spot on the social ladder these factors all can affect it.
    I think it is quite clear that if one comes at this from a purely objective standpoint without the underlying factors and simply assesses the evidence on both sides (or on one side), he shall come to the answer.
    This phenomena is quite visible with the thousands of silly ideas/beliefs that populate the planet. To everyone else their beliefs are quite clearly silly, but to anyone raised believing them they have a very small chance of breaking their minds free.

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