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Slonimer, sorry I could’t get back to you sooner. First, let me remind you and others that this is a hypothetical discussion. So, to continue, without getting too far into specifics, there are certain female characteristics that all agree constitute ervah and some that none (except the burkha nuts) consider so. There is a fairly broad middle ground between the two end points. It is in this middle ground that the controlling factor is community practice, supported by legitimate psak. For instance, I have heard a Rav, of whose bakius and yiras shamaim I am certain, opine that armpits are ervah and they only must be covered (that would rule out tank tops). You or I may disagree and, as you mentioned, we may not be allowed to daven in their presence but members of that community may, indeed, do so and are not sinning if they do.
Mitzvas HasShem are absolute and immutable but their application is, in large part, dependent on community standards and practices. Even the great Hillel is recorded as basing a psak on what he observed the general practice to be in the case in question.Refleg . It is in this middle ground that the controlling factor is community practice, supported by legitimate psak. For instance, I have heard a Rav, of whose bakius and yiras shamaim I am certain, opine that armpits are ervah and they only must be covered (that would rule out tank tops). You or I may disagree and, as you mentioned
Are you saying that this Rabbi alows us girls to wear very short sleeves as long as the armpit is covered. We don’t need to cover our elbows
Who is this Rabbi I would like to inquire more about him
What else does he Allow ?Please use quotes or italics when quoting other posters. It makes posts easier to read and less likely to be misunderstood. Thank you
My reading of Redleg’s various comments is that really any minimal clothing that is deemed the community standard by a rabbi is okay with him.
Slonimer, you seem to be deliberately misquoting me. What is ok with me is not the issue. The point was that the community practice works for each community. The Rav mentioned is someone I know for years but do not necessarily follow. as I said in the case cited, a member of that community davening in the presence of a woman so attired is not sinning, in your community or mine, we would be oiver aveira in such a situation.
Sorry Modesty, You’ll have to make inquiry on your own. Given the vultures on this blog, I don’t want to engender mother shem ra.
P.S. i bet you couldn’t find Slonim on a map,
warrior- I’m careful with tznius. What I;m saying is men don’t have the same challenges so they don’t know how it is. Also theres a difference between halacha and then adding ‘chumros’. Maybe I can understand if they say something about tznius, but my skirt DOES NOT need to be four inches below the knees and im 100% allowed to wear the color pink, or leggings as long as my legs are fully covered.
Men will never understand our challenge and struggle
Just as we will never understand the concept of guard your eyes issues
And that’s why when men criticis us of being very not tznius it only makes thing’s worseI still have so much to say on the topic of tzniyus….
Modesty, you can do it!
“I will be a more clear
I regret saying those words now that I saw your message”Modesty, I’m very impressed! 🙂
Lilmod ulelamaid
Thanks for the chizukJj2020
the reality of life is that we want to be like every one else and when all around you is very not tznius its difficult to be the only one
The books that were recommended by the posts before are Great
However it doesn’t solve the problem for girls who aren’t interested in the mitzvah of tznius
And by default if I even make a very small improvement I’m the one who is standing out
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