Tznius in brooklyn

Tahini: I can only say thank you and I hope we have both learned something here. Although I believe you will find reference to amulet use in Rambam too (Rambam will never argue with concepts mentioned in the Gemara) despite his reputation as a ‘rationalist’.

Feif Un: You wrote (concerning amulets):

“…It is entirely valid to take the approach of the Vilna Gaon, The Noda BeYehuda and others that reject their use… ”

– regarding its actual use, agreed, but not to dismiss it as mere superstition which was the point I was addressing, and which no Acharon would come near to saying. The Gemara in Gittin (7th Perek) has 2 Daf that only talk about weird methods of healing various sicknesses which R’ Akiva Eiger, Chasam Sofer and others say are not to be practised today. However, they are not in the category of superstition

You wrote: “Finally, yesh din v’yesh dayon… – essentially you are sayig that no one has any right to question a posek, talmid chochom, or godol, and no one has any right to call out an egregious or uncomfortable fact about their works……………..

Yours is a pretty stifling standard, one that would silence all debate within frum communities. You may think that is healthy. I don’t…”

No, sorry you seem to have totally missed my point. Debate in Halachah is encouraged and one is permitted to question anything using one’s logic and knowledge. However I believe there are some basic caveats to this:

1) Not to make personal attacks against anybody but especially against a Talmid Chochom.

2) To use only Torah methodology and logic in formulating an argument – and not allow personal bias cloud that. As I mentione in an earlier post, this is very difficult in areas such as Tznius which impacts our way of life every day, in the public arena concerning our individuality and self-expression.

3) Ultimately to submit to greater authorities than ourselves even if we disagree or do not understand.

You wrote “And again, if these who are being “insulting” are truly in the wrong, they will be accountable to the aibishter at the end of their days, not to you.”

– Agreed, and I am unclear why you would believe I ever indicated otherwise.

Ohr Chodesh: I am not furthering any agenda. I do not recall that being a misquote but if it is I will double-check (that will take a while as I do not have access to the Sefer at the moment nor will I anywhere soon. If anyone else has it maybe they could quote it for us.)

on the ball: I think you mixed me up with yichusdik. I never wrote that!

Feif Un: Yes – really sorry it was meant for Yichusdik.

GAW: Glad to say I have no objection to this post as you at no point attacked Rav Falk personally. Your comparison to Rav Linzer is legitimate insofar as it is a derech that is not for you.

everyone cud keep THEYR standerds of tznius while imagning that if mashiach wud come TODAY- wud they be embarrased of wat theyr wearing in front on sara and avraham?!? wud theyr skirt be too short or teight? its jst something to think abt…

oomis- the point is a valid one. if you would put on sopmething more tznius if you were going to get a bracha from a famous gadol because that usual skirt just doesnt feel right, not because your putting on something nicer likavod, that should be a giveaway that its not good enough to begin with. im sure youre going to tell me that you want to be more tznius in front of a gadol etc., but i dont think anyone in meah shearim makes that cheshbon or has that problem. im not saying you should dress like them, but you should attmept to not have the problem either. and if youre going to a gadol, hes probably alive.

Toi: Generally, whenever my wife and I go to anyone’s house, we’ll dress in the way they want people to dress in their home. Their home, their rules. If we’re going to meet up outside the home (like at a restaurant, park, or something else like that), we’ll dress the way we usually dress.

oomis,

That is correct, we are in different times. However I dont think that it makes sense to argue that the way we dress has greatly been influenced by the modern world.

Further more, the modern world has taken the dress code to a new low.

If someone dresses non-tznius, but will dress tznius to meet a Rov (or Moshiach), that is an indication that she is dressing non-tznius other times, and should mend her ways.

I agree wholeheartedly. If someone dresses not tznius (for example in tanktops & shorts) and will dress differently to meet a Rov, then they should dress Tznius at all times.

I’ll go even further. Even if she doesn’t dress Tznius to meet the rov, she should STILL dress Tznius at all times!

And people say I’m not a Machmir. I’m even more Machmir than Choppy! 🙂

However I dont think that it makes sense to argue that the way we dress has greatly been influenced by the modern world.”

The modern world has given the YESHIVAH world its mode of dress. In the early to mid 20th century most non-Jewish men wore black Fedoras, white shirts and black suits.

I solved the tznius clothing issue by learning how to sew. It’s not that hard and not that expensive as I thought it would be. I bought myself very affordable sewing patterns that are tzniusdik and make summer outfits that are k’halacha. I don’t like the layering concept, which according to some are not modest anyway because they are so tight everywhere.