Tznius Crisis in Cars

There is no reason to look into car windows when walking in the street or when waiting at the corner to cross. There is certainly no reason to look into a car window AND down, unless one specifically wanted to.

Has anyone sees “sandrac” since alerting us to this horrible “crisis”? Am I the only one who believes this thread was started by a bored teenager who is laughing at the replies this “crisis” has generated? come on people.

If we adopted a specific chineese practice we could do away with this problem too.

“mike: Why don’t you further denigrate the Torah by calling those who uphold the Mitzvah in the Torah of Tznius as being “Taliban”, “Mullahs”, and “Ayatollahs”. The same people who equate tznius to “burquas”, do the same.”

Commending women for doing their best to dress tznius and on occasion when the dress does inch up, telling men not to stare is in no way denigrate the Torah. Please re read my earlier post

Many women complain that the stores only have shorter skirts now. Are there no entrepeneurs in the clothing industry who see the opportunity to sell a line to those of us who don’t want this nisayon in the clothing store? BTW, it’s comical that the women who wear the shorter skirts spend a lot of time tugging at the hem to draw them over their knees.

shev, you can’t dress like a prutza and simply tell men not to look. Women have obligations in how to dress, in addition to men’s obligation not to look.

Shev143, for the n-th time, even if one is careful about shmiras ha’einaim, it is possible to see things unintentionally for a split second — and it’s already a problem.

Has anyone sees “sandrac” since alerting us to this horrible “crisis”? Am I the only one who believes this thread was started by a bored teenager who is laughing at the replies this “crisis” has generated? come on people.

I had originally thought this was Joseph starting a crisis under a new old name. He has denied it. Make of that what you want…

“I think the man is right. In Oz v’hadar, he says the same. Jews are affected more by Jewesses. Look it up”

Question #1: Two women get out of different cars, both dressed in shorts. If neither is wearing any religiously related jewelry around their neck, how does a man know which one is Jewish?

Question #2:Then whay are so many Jewish men attracted to and marry non-Jews?

lesschumras- I agree with your question #2. I have heard that the intermarriage rate is hovering around 70% these days – I cannot cite the source because I don’t remember. I even know an extremely frum man who was more “attracted” to gentile woman and he married one – of course, after she converted. She now has 9 children and wears a sheitl. But, the point is where would he have had the opportunity to become involved with her in the first place? I know that once a person is converted, we are to accept them as if they were born Jewish, but usually, no matter how frum they are, something is lacking (my personal opinion). I often think that because “being Jewish” is more than religion – it consists an awful lot of culture. Most secular Jews have something about them that is more Jewish than the most frum convert. This is not meant to be a blanket statement, just a generaliztion from my personal observations. What do the rest of you think? I know it is a little off the topic of this thread.

Crisis? why is everything a Crisis?

I think that according to what one does, one dresses differently. For example if one goes bike riding one should not go with the same skirt as when one goes walking. If one really has to go out in the car with a stright skirt, a practical idea would be to have or to make a wrapover that is left in the car ready to be used whenever necessary.

The problem with going out in a dress not compatible or long enough for a car or minivan and all other daily activities, and leaving something in the car to cover you when you get in and out, is that you will be stuck if you go into another persons vehicle where you don’t have the wrapover. Are you not going to travel because your clothing will then make you untznius?

“Crisis? why is everything a Crisis?”

The OP meant “creases” and was concerned with the irony, I mean, ironing

I don’t understand why so many men are spending time looking at women getting in and out of cars…I have no idea if this is an issue since I don’t look. In order to look that means you are staring where you shouldn’t. Instead of suggesting this is a tznius issue, I think those with a problem with it need to look internally…

Thank you, mikehall12382. While tznius may have to be worked on, it’s time for men to start being more careful with shmiras ainayim as well.

And an additional point — unrelated to above — is that even men who have the best shmiras einayim will still see the women in public.

mike: Even a bunch of girls in this thread (pumper, hacham, whatrutalkingabt, etc.) said they agree they’re IS a tznius problem in this area. I’m not sure how you missed that. Like mdd said, the skirts need to be longer. This is a strict halachic issue (that knees need to be always covered), not a community standard issue.

It is a big problem even if the skirt covers your knees. When I’m getting out of an SUV even if it has running boards no matter what kind of skirt I wear I always feel like its a problem. If its a loose skirt it tends to fly up. If its a straight skirt even if it covers my knee when Im sitting, getting out of a car is a whole different thing than sitting. You’re turning around and jumping down its really very hard to keep your knees covered and I try to hold my skirt down but it doesnt always work. Im still trying to figure out a solution.

Mike, the obligation for the women is to have their knees covered at all times. Period.

And for the (n+1)-th time, even if one is careful with shmiras ha’einaim, one can still accidentally see inadequately-covered women. Therefore, they have to be dreesed properly at all times.

seriously speaking, if the women wear tight skirts that are down thill their shins they will have to hike them up to get in and out of any vehicles.

perhaps thats the first thing that should go.

stop with the tight skirts.

cherrybim LOL!!

If there are indeed so many men looking at women, I surely wouldn’t want to be one of those women being ogled, and would thus properly cover up to minimize such a thing.

And is saying men shouldn’t look really an excuse to wear a miniskirt?

Having read a lot of the posts here — talk about “leitzanus echad doche mea tochechos”.

With 90+ posts, I really can’t say something that has already been said, but I will add this.

The hemline competition is just that. Very competitive. If I were a woman of semi decent looks, and pitted against 100s of other women in my age / demographic area, I’d look for every advantage I could find to put me in the top 10%. A hemline that pushes the outer limit of tznius would be just such an edge.

Can’t blame the women who do push the hemline to the limit, but kol ha’kovod to the women who don’t. At a recent family gathering, it was quite a shocker to see how a few of the younger girls were dressed. So what alternative does that leave for the folks in their 30s and 40s?

Either retreat and admit defeat or fight back. Either way, its a tough call to make.

Glad I’m not in this battle.

Apashutyid, you would not, and I would.

How about everyone take care of themselves, once you have totally perfected yourself, masterd the torah,then and only then can you comment on others? but before you do you must first get the permission From no less than 300 rabbis…

pacman/Joseph/??….not sure your approach works either.