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Every week, there is a kiruv-sponsored Torah study night for people my age, about an hour from where I live.
I’ve attended a few classes in the past year. I always dressed tzniusly. The location is a hike, by car. Whenever I’ve gone, I came home exhausted. In itself, I am not sure if I will go again and how often. However, the distance is not the only barrier.
The Torah class also competes with another regular thing that I have on the same night. Since that other thing is already 20min closer to the Torah class, I can perhaps do both. The thing is that if I do so, I will be wearing pants. I cannot go into detail about why this is so, and why I cannot just put a skirt on top or something, but it just is the situation at hand right now.
DILEMMA: It’s so hard for me to go untzniusly when I know I will be around frum Jews. There are plenty of women my age there who aren’t dressed tzniusly.
The Rebbetzin literally told me that there was no dress code and I was welcome as I am in whatever I’m wearing.
HOWEVER: I feel like I’ve learned too much at this point to feel comfortable sitting in on the shiur in pants.
YET: If I told the Rebbetzin that I wasn’t showing up because I didn’t have the right outfit on, she would likely tell me to come anyway. I just feel so wrong about it, like I’m disrespecting the rabbonim there who are selflessly teaching us Torah.
It’s such a difficult thing because I’ve internalized how evil it is to be untznius around men, etc.
Anyone want to give me some perspective here?
Thanks in advance
You shouldn’t be dressing in a non-tznius manner in public regardless of whether there are or aren’t rabbis or rebbetzins there.
In general I’d agree with Daas Yochid, but AYLOR. He may have an idea how you can get around the problem.
“If I told the Rebbetzin that I wasn’t showing up because I didn’t have the right outfit on, she would likely tell me to come anyway”
If you feel comfortable telling her that, you should probably discuss this with her.
people involved in Kiruv are well aware that people who go arent as frum as they are , and they are not going to say anything to discourage people from going
No experience with your issue, but I do have some speaking to Rabbis and Rebbetzins. You’ll probably realize this yourself eventually: they don’t always tell you what you were sure they’d say! Sometimes they say something entirely different. So maybe have that conversation with the rebbetzin after all.
If you’re a little uncomfortable talking to her, is there maybe a different Rebbetzin (or Rabbi) you’re close with that you can ask?
Because I agree like others mentioned, that the CR isn’t the best place for this.
You’ll find lots of threads here about tznius but when it comes down to deciding what to do IRL, you want expert advice and a personal consultation. Or at least that’s what I’d want…
First off, I think it’s really nice that you go very far out of your way to attend these amazing classes. Secondly you asked “and why I cannot just put a skirt on top or something”. You can, plain and simple, and that’s 100% tznius. Unfortunately there are people in society who judge others wrongly, and if they don’t do something which conforms to what they are doing, then they look at you badly, which is absolutely wrong.
DY: “You shouldn’t be dressing in a non-tznius manner in public regardless of whether there are or aren’t rabbis or rebbetzins there.”
DY, while I agree with you in theory, I’m not sure it was the appropriate response in this case. She’s in the process of becoming Frum, and working very hard to grow in tznius. Cut her some slack. People have to grow at their own pace, and going too far too fast can be self-defeating.
LB: “Anyway thank you. I realized that there was no answer here. I needed to say it aloud and realize what it meant to me. What I learned was that even when the Rebbetzin said that there was no dress code, I didn’t feel comfortable dressing untzniusly. I know that for myself, I must dress tzniusly. That’s ideal. Right now, I am not-ideal. However, I can at least not show up untzniusly. I don’t want to add that. And if I want Torah, then okay, I need to find a sustainable way to learn and grow.”
LB, shkoyach! I’m impressed!
Girls are not allowed to wear pants period.
rebshidduch, please see my first post above.
LB:
I didn’t feel comfortable dressing untzniusly. I know that for myself, I must dress tzniusly.
It’s impressive that this is something that at this point you intrinsically feel you should be doing for yourself, not for anybody else.
That’s ideal. Right now, I am not-ideal.
IMHO, the important thing is to A) recognize the ideals (check:), and then B) work towards implementing them into one’s day to day life, slowly but surely.
Keep climbing!
MW13 – +1.
lightbrite, there are a lot of frum zumba classes where you can go to where you can wear a skirt.
This is a question for a kiruv professional. Nobody in a CR is going to tell you it’s ever OK to ignore tznius, as it’s not. If there’s someone with whom you’re involved that knows where you stand, they would know if there’s a circumstance in which an individual can be less observant in one area to benefit their future observance level overall. This should never be exploited, however, and you have to make sure, if you’re going to ask the question, that you’re truly asking the question and not asking FOR the specific answer.
By the way, I’m really happy that you think so highly of us CR posters. It’s nice to have a new person come in and bring positivity as a break from us being at each other’s throats.
NCB: “By the way, I’m really happy that you think so highly of us CR posters. It’s nice to have a new person come in and bring positivity as a break from us being at each other’s throats.”
+1
I’m always so curious when I see “edited” at the end of a really nice post :).
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