Two Years since Covid

Skepticism of government and “science” will be here to stay.

of course, when i say science, i mean science, not theories such as the theory of evolution. that’s still a theory.
but, anyone can tell me what’s with all the dinosaur bones they keep finding.
in this week’s parsha, dinosaurs are not mentioned as kosher or treif.
any thoughts?

I’m still cautious about touching my face after touching things like doorknobs and other heavily shared surfaces. I was never conscious of it before, because in my mind the worst I’d get is a cold or the flu.

Melech Dovid was given a choice of pandemic and war and sensibly chose the former. Seems that we did not learn the lessons somehow as after two years we are now confronted by a madman.

Note that we often mistakenly think of punishments, miracles, .. happening in a split moment “hetzi halaila”. Note that 10 makkos took many many months.

AAQ, it’s something most parents teach their kids, whether they’re Jewish or not. It’s common sense, but it’s not something I was particularly worried about, even though I’m on the overcautious/, nervous side regarding health issues b’chlal. I was a very fidgety kid and my parents picked their battles. I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do, but I don’t think I got colds very often; it could be that my immune system is used to it due to my never having been careful about such exposure.

There’s an established link between gingivitis and heart disease. One cannot contract gingivitis from doorknobs. I don’t believe that even a frequent cold poses any serious issue.

anIsraeliYid: If you spend too much time in this forum, eventually you (slowly but ever so surely) come around to my views. It is a deliberative and, for most, an indiscernible process. Few realize it until it is too late to revert. So, congratulations, on your being cognizant and self-aware of your change.

With great love and Ahavas Yisroel,

Ah Gutten Shabbos and Chag Kosher V’Sameach!

🙂

Looking back, a bad case of flu but only life threatening to a small percentage of the population BUT a bad case of governments making things worse. At least public attention throughout the world has turned away from fighting a virus. Instead the government is focusing its problem solving skills on Ukraine.

Any chance they will develop a vaccine that works against political leaders (of more general application than Torah and Mitsvos, which only work for a small percentage of the population).

@moishekapoieh The Tiferes Yisroel (who wrote Yochin U’Boaz on Mishnayos) has a sefer at the end of Mishnayos Sanhedrin called “Or HaChaim” that answers some of your questions.

>>>u have a pblm with science. all it is , is give you FACTS.
don’t like facts? r u an ostrich?
they don’t like the truth and facts, so they hide their face in dirt.
be my guest

Whoa! Defensive much here even though no one attacked you.

I won’t change your mind but (1)science does not give facts. They give their interpretation of phenomena and sometimes claim they are facts. Sometimes they are sometime they aren’t (2)Someone so scientifically educated should know that ostriches don’t hide their face in dirt. It’s an ancient scientific belief that we have far advanced from. They use their beaks to check on their eggs buried in the ground and in times of danger lower their heads partially in the ground to protect it.

But whatever…

“just because you got yeshiva education and know how to browse internet does not necessarily mean that you understand facts better.”
But those who study science and got a few hours of yeshiva education no doubt are proficient in both. Yup, we hear ya

I would have thought by now being more than 2 years later since the coronavirus pandemic Mageifa started that klal yisroel would have already woken up to Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP together as one nation like we all did in the story of Purim.

Do YOU even remember what Hashems wake up call of the coronavirus pandemic Mageifa is? That came down on day 1 as soon as the terrible Mageifa started straight from Hashem in Heaven?

The Shocking wake up Message of the Coronavirus Mageifa Pandemic that has still not ended yet R”L:
Every tragedy has a wake up call message directly from Hashem that your not going to find in any sefer in the world or read in any newspaper from a Gadol Hador or speaker saying about the tragedy. What is the shocking message of the Coronavirus Epidemic-that shut down the entire world starting January 2020-that has already killed millions of innocent lives of all ages? what does Coronavirus mean? Kara-Na-Aveiros,, call out to your aveiros-my loving children klal yisroel-to wake up & do teshuva. But the message from Hashem doesn’t end there, whats the other name for Coronavirus that everyone calls it? i forgot, Covid, what does that mean? what does Covid/Honor do to a person? what does it say in Pirkei Avos? it removes a person from the world, & thats exactly what Covid is doing right now, its removing millions of people from the world as we are still in the midst of this terrible mageifa effecting the ENTIRE world. Let us all ask ourselves who made it be called these crazy names? where does it come from? the dictionary? is this just coincidence or is it a straight sign & direct message from Hashem that its time for all of klal yisroel to wake up & do teshuva? you think about this.

MAY we all wake up together for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP so Hashem can send this terrible Mageifa and send Mashiach to come already.

smerel, I am not asking for a smerel v Fauci fight. I am sure both would make good points and it would be a geshmak to watch.

I am talking about a whole universe of science as presented by hundreds of papers written by probably thousands of people. You seem to dismiss them all, without presenting a specific argument. It means that you feel you have some basis to do that. I can only think that this is based on internal feeling that we, Yidden, know and understand something important that others don’t. I just hope we are not mis-using our heritage in vain.

As to politicians, I suggest look back at Madison’s writings that the goal of American system is not to ensure that everyone is truthful, but to make sure that opposing opinions get played out in public sphere. This seems to worked out well beyond his expectations :). Hope we don’t get confused by that and make our opinions based on acceptance or rejection of views by some politicians. We can do better than that.

>>>I am talking about a whole universe of science as presented by hundreds of papers written by probably thousands of people. You seem to dismiss them all

I don’t dismiss them all but I also don’t think that a scientific peer reviewed paper about something that can’t be proven true with a clear cause and effect, where there are many unknown factors and only certain types of evidence are admissible in reaching that conclusion represents truth.

>>>You seem to dismiss them all, without presenting a specific argument.

Scientists frequently do that about things like (but not limited to) overwhelming anecdotal evidence against them.

>>>I can only think that this is based on internal feeling that we, Yidden, know and understand something important that others don’t.

I work in a non-Jewish professional office and interact with non-Jews most of the day . I’ve never met a non-Jew who had the incredible degree of Emunas Chachim in scientists and Emunah Pesutah
in various scientific claims like I see on the ostensibly frum science oriented blogs and forums

smerel > scientific peer reviewed paper about something that can’t be proven true with a clear cause and effect

thanks, this seems to pointing out to the issue at hand. A lot of emerging information is indeed coming first from data science rather than bio experiments, and science seem to have a better handle on experiments than on handling data. And given how often statistics is indeed misused politically, the low level of trust I think is justified. Maybe, the standards will evolve. It is a criminal offense to forge financial statements, an academic offense to fake a biological experiment, even a cyber attack will soon be considered a war act, but mis-using statistics is still a “gray area” indeed.

We do need to catch up, as many decisions are now inevitably done based on such data, especially when time is of essence, like vaccine roll out. I was struck reading an article by a retired vaccine developer who says at the end “if I were a President, I would make sure high schools be well trained in one subject”. I expected him to say biology or public health, but he said “statistics”.