Two Children Caught With Radios In Catskills Interfering With Hatzolah Life Savi

bk613,

“what legal right does Hatzolah have to confiscate private property from them”

The article did not state that Hatzolah confiscated the radios. I assume it was the parents, and they definitely have the right. Note the appeal from the Hatzola Catskills coordinator:

“We are pleading with parents to confiscate ALL radios with Hatzolah frequencies from children, and imploring parents not to buy these devices for them. This is Pikuach Nefashos, and this will not be tolerated whatsoever”, a Catskills Hatzalah Coordinator told YWN.”

bk613 -“That said, what legal right does Hatzolah have to confiscate private property from them. ”

I’m not going to get into right or wrong, but in Lakewood Hatzolah – if they catch a kid broadcasting on their frequency – they confiscate the radios.

Change the term from illegal use of to reckless use that endangers the life of private citizens, does it change what law enforcement or even a private citizen may do?

Joseph-The FCC is the agency that enforces these rules and understand that they may have the legal ability to confiscate. That doesn’t change the fact that Hatzoloh, a a private entity, does not. tHE ARTICLE STATES “They were interfering with Hatzolah for the past two weeks in the Woodridge area, until they were tracked down by Hatzolah members. They immediately had their radios confiscated.” The way it is written, it seems that the Hatzoloh members who “tracked them down” confiscated them.

Mammele…………..
In most jurisdictions, the police cannot confiscate a car because it was driven by a drunk driver. They can arrange for revocation of a drivers licence by DMV.
When a car is used for delivery of drugs, it may be forfeited by order of the judge at trial.

There is a HUGE difference between a piece of property being impounded pending trail and actual confiscation which changes ownership.
Chances are the car driven by the drunk driver may have been impounded pending trail, not confiscated.

The legal meaning of words is often quite different than the way they are used in news articles.

CTLawyer,

If it is true (as claimed in the story) that the use of these radios was endangering lives, then we good Jews who follow what is right according to the Torah need no sanction from secular law to confiscate them.

If someone is drowning, and for some reason the only way I can save them is by stealing your car and driving it off a cliff, I am required to do so. (It is possible I would have to compensate you afterward, although I seem to remember that in some cases even this Is not necessary, perhaps there is a machlokes about this.)

In classic ywn fashion, the point of the story is completely lost.

Ferd…
Which end of the horse are you?

Such Lashon Hora, during the 9 days noch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My questions only have to do with American civil law, not religious (halacha) law.
#1 There are NO FCC laws. The only Federal laws are those passed by Congress. The FCC, in its authority granted by Congress and the Executive Branch may promulgate regulations and may even have the authority to levy fines through administrative law. That does not mean they can ignore constitutional due process rights.
Every American has the right, if not obligation to question government actions, especially in this time of the Trump administration who ignores laws and judicial decisions. How’s that 20 day order to reunite families doing? I questioned who confiscated the radios. I also questioned if in fact it was a confiscation, where title changes hands or an impound pending trial and adjudication.
You immediately commit libel against most attorneys.
I am not a slip and fall attorney and have never been…I don’t practice Personal Injury law and never have.

If you have read my posts, you would know I have children and grandchildren and DON’T live in an area where Hatzoloh operates and would respond to any need.

I did not play any games, I asked serious legal questions, that’s what intelligent people do. I NEVER said Hatzoloh confiscated radios, I asked who did.

An apology is in order, not top just myself, but most of my profession.
You come across as a boor.

flatbushaskan,
You hit the needle on the head!
Exactly what I was going to write!

While these children should not be allowed to play with radios unless they know what they’re doing, it is clear that radio communication is too vulnerable to be considered safe for emergency medical organizations.

So, we have 2 kids, likely not the only 2, who either have nothing else to do (or are not allowed to do anything else) but listen to the hatzalah frequency, and as an added bonus they believe it is “fun” to respond to the dispatcher using the identification of known members. Hatzalah issues a “warning” that this type of “entertainment” is dangerous, and the ONLY thing fit to discuss is who gave anyone the “right” to confiscate the radios?

Lets expand the discussion.

. dont these “kids” have ANYTHING better to do with their time? why not?
. if they are “kids”, who is supervising them and how they are spending their time?
. why did it take TWO WEEKS for hatzalah to issue a warning about something so dangerous (article said it has been going on for 2 weeks”)
. why is the headline “story” about 2 kids who were caught, the headlline 2 weeks ago should have been, these radios are dangerous, dont abuse them, or give them to kids who cant make proper decisions regarding their use.

Just a generalization here…….FCC fines are usually monetarily hefty, and some offenses may even come with jail time. I would imagine, that while LEGALLY a non-LEO or FCC official cannot confiscate even a $30 Chinese radio (which at this point are generally all FCC type certified) , I would imagine that the alternative of having the perpetrators (and parents) info forwarded to the FCC for a formal complaint with the resultant fines assessed is a far worse choice. IMHO I would offer the kids/parents the choice: voluntarily give the radios to Hatzolah and/or destroy them, or face the formal complaint and resultant fines. Just as a quick example (without getting too technical) a simple setting on these radios colloquially called “narrowbanding” that is set improperly can incur a $10,000 fine PER OCCURRENCE. IE: for each time the PTT button is pressed. The FCC doesn’t fool around. look at their enforcements page. Hopefully this whole publicized incident will deter others from interfering with Hatzolahs activities.

unfortunately, i inadvertantly garbled some words. I meant to say Trump obeyed the court order of the Hawaiian judge regarding the travel ban.
If the parents dont want to be separated from their children, don’t break the law by entering illegally. It’s that simple

I was thinking the same thing. These kids obviously need to have the radios taken away from them, and then legal action taken against the parents if they continue to enable this life-threatening behavior. HOWEVER, Hatzalah, by taking the radios themselves (if they actually did) is opening themselves up to lawsuits and possible criminal charges for theft etc. Regardless of how right you are, you can’t just go around doing whatever you feel like.

Were these radios actually illegal? or were they legal and just kids acting stupidly?

@Ferd. to paraphrase someone else, you truly are talking out of the wrong end. So, THREE years ago Hatzalah of BP issued such a warning, yippeee!!!!. I’m IN woodridge during the summer. Have not heard a SINGLE word about anyone interfering with hatzalah frequencies. Not even a sign hanging in shul. Granted, I dont daven in every shul in woodridge and perhaps a simple measure like that was taken in SOME shuls, considering it is such a “vital” concern, why is the story of a confiscated radio on YWN and a WARNING anytime in the last 2 weeks, not? Sounds to me, like someone is interested in “hock”, nothing more, nothing less. YWN is great manure spreader.

I’m still foggy on one point: were these frum kids? If their parents are frum, that puts the responsibility squarely within the community. The parents can be warned, even threatened with cherem, if they don’t get rid of the radios and control their kids. The issue falls under bais din, and it can do what it considers necessary, unless the parents appeal to civil court, especially since it’s a matter of saving lives.

And for Heaven’s sake, let’s remember it’s the Nine Days.

IDK why the first part of my post never made it here. I found a news report from Lakewood in October 2013 that warned about kids playing with these radios. The picture here on YWN of the radios is the same one used in that article. The title was “Kids on 2-Way Radios Interfere With Emergency Calls”.

So it is not a new problem that Hatzolah has to start telling the world about.

Calling an entire conversation unintelligent can make you a lot of enemies in one go.

CT
To get completely off topic: but since you mentioned it.
I googled “Ways Obama violated the law” and came up with numerous articles
Ignoring non mainstream articles
There are articles in the Washington Post (pretty liberal by most standards) saying “we are in an era of unprecedented presidential over reach”
And Forbes “top 10 ways Obama violated the constitution in 2013”
I’m willing to bet the side by side comparison will have Obama winning this not trump as you would have us believe

I don’t think these radios were broadcast radios. And if this is what little children who mean no harm can do to emergency services, what could someone do with malicious intent? If your only security measure is to tell people not to buy radio transceivers for their children, you’re using the honor system. And I’m not convinced the honor system works.

And mentsch1 i did not give 2 options please highlight where i mentioned option 2