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I think he’s poison ivy
Looks more like poison oak.
stinkweed
In 1992 thete were 3 presidential candidates each of about one-third of the vote according to the polls, Bush Clinton and Perot.
Perot dropped out just before the Democratic Convention leaving all his supporters looking for a candidate. Bill Clinton did an excellent job speaking and picked up a large amount of the Perot supporters.
Several years later United States government made a large land purchase in Texas for over a billion dollars which happened to be owned by a mr. Ross Perot
Ross Perot is the single-handed reason why Bill Clinton became President.
Sorry Joseph………….
Read my lips, no new taxes. Instead Bush gave us user fees.
There are many reasons Clinton won, don’t give all the credit to Perot.
trump is great.The best.
except that trump isnt a 3rd parrty candidate
A good argument can be made is that Trump is a traditional Democrats in the mold of people such as John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Franklin Roosevelt, whereas the Democrats have moved radically to the left and are now support positions that in the past would have been considered off-the wall radical. If we had proportional representation, we could accomodate more parties but we have a “winner takes all” system. Note that in periods where the Republicans were dominated by conservatives, Trump was a Democrat.
His nativism and his pungnacious campaign style really don’t reflect his ideological background or his substance. In terms of issues, he’s either a conservative Democrat or a liberal Republican.
“the Democrats have moved radically to the left and are now support positions that in the past would have been considered off-the wall radical”
Actually it is far more complicated.
The Democratic party has moved to the Left because it made things uncomfortable for southern racists like Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, Mills Godwin and their ilk. They became Republicans and the Republican party (most of it, at least) welcomed them with open arms as part of Nixon’s “southern strategy” which represented a horrible immoral political opportunism. (I have seen videos of Nixon in the 1960 campaign calling for more civil rights laws!) And at the same time reasonable southern Republicans like Linwood Holton were forced out. (Holton eventually supported Barack Obama for President and his son in law is now a Democratic US Senator).
However, outside of the South, the Democratic party is far more conservative today than 50 years ago. For example, it was normative for northern Democrats to support single payer universal health insurance for everyone, not just the elderly. Democrats not usually associated with the Left such as John Dingell and Henry Jackson were big supporters! Huge fractions of northern Democrats wanted to decimate the US Defense Department budget; now it is only Libertarians like Gary Johnson who express such ideas. (Bernie Sanders even supports the F-35, which his own foreign policy advisor Bill French correctly calls a massive boondoggle!) I am aware of no Democrat of importance today who wants to return tax rates to Eisenhower levels when the US experienced great prosperity; the sluggish growth in median incomes began with the Reagan tax cuts!
By European standards the Democratic Party in the US would be called a “center right” party. The Likud Party in Israel is more to the Left!
” In terms of issues, he’s either a conservative Democrat or a liberal Republican. “
In terms of issues, Trump’s principle is What Is Good For Trump.
In terms of everything else, too. His campaign seems to be a vehicle for funneling funds to Trump companies that have contracts with his campaign organization! No wonder nobody wants to contribute to his campaign.
“In terms of everything else, too. His campaign seems to be a vehicle for funneling funds to Trump companies that have contracts with his campaign organization!”
Kind of like the Clinton Foundation.
“Kind of like the Clinton Foundation. “
No, not at all like the Clinton Foundation. I pulled their IRS Form 990 off the internet. Neither Bill, Hillary, nor Chelsea Clinton received any compensation from the Clinton Foundation during 2014, the last year for which the form is available online. By comparison, the Trump campaign has paid $11 million to Trump businesses.
The Clinton’s are better at hiding it. See how little of their budget goes to their stated mission.
BTW as you can see from my words above, I’m no fan of either.
I’m no fan of either either. I did find an ironic statement earlier that Chelsea Clinton, in a campaign, said how horrible it is that her grandmother (or great-grandmother, I forget) did not have access to Planned Parenthood. There is a major logical problem there…
“The Clinton’s are better at hiding it.”
You have just accused a former President of the United States and the next President of the United States of charity fraud and tax fraud. If you are going to do that, you better have some evidence. Otherwise I will just assume you are a baal motzi shem ra.
The title of this thread is a little confusing. I consider Trump a Republican plant, i.e., he is a Republican, with the intelligence of a plant.
To coffee addict: If a RINO wins the Republican nomination for president, he’s a R, no matter what anybody says. The question for the R’s is, what are you going to do about it.
“Trump’s principle is What Is Good For Trump.”
As the result of the Brexit vote, two trillion dollars of wealth in the world disappeared overnight as securities markets crashed. The collapse in the UK’s currency immediately made France, and not the UK, the second largest economy in Europe.
But Trump was ecstatic that his golf course in Scotland might finally make money.
Media reports are that George Soros also made money through the right hedges on Brexit.
So Trump is just like Soros, putting his own interests first and making money off the misery of millions.
“So Trump is just like Soros, putting his own interests first and making money off the misery of millions.”
Reminds me of some lady and her husband. Forgot who. Lemme think about it.
“Reminds me of some lady and her husband.”
Wrong again. They charge ridiculous prices to speak to people who can afford to pay them. Soros and Trump make money off the poor and innocent.
“The question for the R’s is, what are you going to do about it.”
The polls all indicate — and the comment threads here support them — that the Rs will be voting in huge numbers for the guy who incites nativists, racists, and anti-Semites.
” They charge ridiculous prices to speak to people who can afford to pay them.”
At least we can agree that they are all greedy.
Apparently, when Hillary was Sec of State, policy towards certain countries/leaders changed after they gave large contributions to the Clinton Foundation.
No one around Trump has committed suicide, but dozens of people around the Clintons have (been suicided).
BTW, I’m pretty sure that the laws of Motsai Shem Ra don’t apply to an Akum who has been involved in dozens of well known frauds and scandals (whether you want to see them or not).
Unfortunately no one recognizes how much of a gavra trump is. He’s probably the only person that can save America, especially after what Obama had done to it.
“only person that can save America”
Save America like Brexit “saved” the UK. The currency has crashed, its securities markets have crashed, Scotland is preparing to Leave so there won’t be a UK any more, and those left will be facing economic problems in the short, medium, and long term, not to mention a rise in xenophobia and bigotry including anti-Semitism.
To coffee addict: I don’t vote for anyone because of his/her religion. There are plenty of goyische candidates whose views are consistent with Torah, and plenty of Jews – including frum Jews – whose views are not consistent with Torah. But just to give you a tangible example, I considered President Obama’s views more Torahic than Mitt Romney’s.
I considered President Obama’s views more Torahic than Mitt Romney’s.
How on earth did you do that?
i’ve had the same thought about him not wanting to be president but I think it’s to take down the democrats. He just got up there to expose the clinton’s for the garbage they do that everyone ignores. once it is finally over, he’ll step down.
Late to the party, but:
“I’m no fan of either either. I did find an ironic statement earlier that Chelsea Clinton, in a campaign, said how horrible it is that her grandmother (or great-grandmother, I forget) did not have access to Planned Parenthood. There is a major logical problem there…”
No, there isn’t. I’m sure that a product of rape would also say how horrible it is that the police couldn’t save her mother from her father’s attack.
Joseph:Ross Perot is the single-handed reason why Bill Clinton became President.
That clearly is not true. Clinton led all the polls even when perot dropped out (before re-entering). That is the bush family line, but it is not true. And even if it is, the favor was returned when son bush got elected only because of ralph nader.
As to trump, I agree that he cooked this whole thing up with Hillary. While fox news has been strategizing for 8 years how to take her down, she has had the same time to do that to the republican party. One thing is for sure, either she will win or she will bring the republicans down with her.
CharlieHall,
You have the same problem with Brexit that the Tories had with the “revolutionary” colonists.
Yes being part of Britian was better in the short term, and if they would have co-operated things would have been better.
However there was one simple problem they felt disrespected as human beings.
They felt they were second class citizens.
They did not want to be a part of the United Kingdom.
The Democrats are unwilling to recognize a simple problem.
Much of the Us does not want their policies.
Period.
The majority did not want ObamaCare.
period.
A huge percentage does not want the PC culture they have imposed upon this country, nor do they want “open borders”.
Sadly the Republican party for many years did not have the courage of it’s convictions to stand up to this madness and failed to grasp the depth of the anger of many American’s.
The anger of the workers in coal plants out of a job because of stupid environmental regulations.
The anger of religious people who were told that to operate a business in America you have to serve product intended for ceremonies that go against the core of you’re beliefs and if not you are racist.
The anger of those who were told that they could not build on their own land because of stupid zoning and environmental laws.
The anger of millions of people who were told they cannot pray in public because they are “offending” other’s but they must allow men who decide they are women to use the same bathroom as their daughters.
The failure of the Republican party to stand for it’s base led to it being damaged at it’s core, Jeb Bush running and many insiders thinking he was the favorite shows how out of touch the party really was with the voters.
That led to a sad case where the one person who was willing to stand and speak his mind, whether it made sense or not, and was totally and unapologetically spate from the “Republican” brand wiping the floor with anyone else.
The one person who had a prayer against him was the Republican most associated with being anti the establishment.
To sum it up, I do not know if the Trump is a plant or not.
However I do know that the one’s who are most responsible for him are the Republican party leadership who refused to recognize the depth of anger of the American public against the establishment and energetically stand up for those who voted them into power.
“The anger of the workers in coal plants out of a job because of stupid environmental regulations…The anger of those who were told that they could not build on their own land because of stupid zoning and environmental laws.”
Those regulations that you deride as “stupid” are the only hope that we have of preserving the planet for future generations. Climate change is real, and it isn’t going away anytime soon.
“The anger of religious people who were told that to operate a business in America you have to serve product intended for ceremonies that go against the core of you’re [sic] beliefs and if not you are racist.”
Actually, gay marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. Nice try.
“The anger of millions of people who were told they cannot pray in public because they are ‘offending’ other’s [sic] but they must allow men who decide they are women to use the same bathroom as their daughters.”
Transgender women aren’t “men who decide they are women”, they are real women. And they need to use the bathroom just like anybody else does. They aren’t interested in victimizing other people’s daughters, they just want to do their business. Also, I’m pretty sure there is no law in America that forbids praying in public. Having a governmental organization host a public prayer session, perhaps, but private individuals and private companies are certainly entitled to pray in public spaces.
But I’m not sure where you’re going with this, anyway, because establishment Republicans are very much opposed to gay marriage, public prayer, transgender bathroom usage, regulations to fight climate change, and the other examples you mentioned.
So Jfem
Let’s understand you fully.
Scientifically speaking a person is born with with a female or male biology they physically progress as a typical female or male specimen.
If however they decide that they truly and deeply feel they belong to the opposite gender and they exhibit a deep longing towards that gender it is completely normal to regard them differently and ignore the biological facts of their bodies.
However if on the other hand a male or female feels that the correct spouse for them is of the same gender it is completely unwarranted to point out that perhaps they are mistaken and marriage is of opposite genders.
That is the reputable findings of the APA.
In other news the sky is a bright purple today.
Oh and lets not forget climate change is real it’s a observable scientific fact.
However a man may not be a man and a woman may not be a woman.
In fact horses may be cats.
You just never know their feelings do you?
It’s neurology, not psychology.
Actually, there are biological differences in the brain as well. Researchers have performed brain scans of transgender people and discovered that the brains of transgender men were more similar to the brains of people born with male reproductive organs than people born with female reproductive organs. It’s much more than just a “deep longing towards the other gender”. It’s science-based.
But regardless, according to the Tzitz Eliezer, once a person has the surgery, they are now considered the gender that they switched to, not the gender they were born as. Which would also speak to your point, coffee addict. Once their “private parts” change, the definition of who they are also changes. (And regarding “tell that to Hashem”– guess what, Hashem is the one who created their brains and bodies differently in the first place. Also, I don’t think by goyim it matters at all.)
It is also never a good idea to have a conversation with a gay person to “point out that perhaps they are mistaken and marriage is of opposite genders.” They aren’t going to scratch their head and say, “Oh, you’re right, so silly of me!” They’re going to go ahead and marry their same-gender partner anyway. All you will have accomplished is to contribute some pain and suffering to them and to make a tremendous Chillul Hashem in the process.
And, yes, climate change is an observable scientific fact. Got any questions?
But regardless, according to the Tzitz Eliezer, once a person has the surgery, they are now considered the gender that they switched to, not the gender they were born as.
you talk about before and after the surgery but i don’t think it is clear that having the surgery is permissible. And that was heard from someone who had it.
Whether or not it is a longing, it is a nisayon. My close friend has a longing/craving/drive for something that is incessant but not permissible. There are ways to address that within the confines of halacha. Without taking the “poor me, I’m stuck because Gd dealt me a bad hand” path.
That’s correct. The Tzitz Eliezer says that it is forbidden to undergo the surgery, but once it is done, the person is now considered to be whatever gender they transitioned to.
Yes, it is a tremendous nisayon for a frum person. I’m not sure about “ways to address that” other than talk therapy, a supportive Rav, supportive parents, and a heck of a lot of self-control and determination. Those of us who do not have this nisayon will never be able to fully understand how difficult it is.
The nisayon is not an “excuse” to have the surgery. It doesn’t make the surgery justifiable halachically. But likewise, outright hostility and lack of compassion from frum people to the plight of transgender people is not justifiable, either.
Coffer addict,
Jfem did not say that a man who thinks they are a woman has the same “wiring” as woman.
She would not say this because it’s an untruth as long as the “physical body parts” are male the wiring behind them is mostly male.
That’s an observable fact.
However there are certain parts of their brain which are different the same is of each and every person with a mistaken belief or delusion.
And it must be so for if there would be nothing different in the wiring they would not think differently.
However there are certain parts of their brain which are different the same is of each and every person with a mistaken belief or delusion.
And it must be so for if there would be nothing different in the wiring they would not think differently.
no way!
not all thoughts/disorders/mental illnesses are appearant on the brain. Thinking differently is not about “wiring”. Some disorders have been known to show up in the wiring of the brain, such as Autism and I think ADHD(may be misremembering that one) but some people’s perceptions are emotional and even if it shows up in their bloodwork, it isn’t gonna show up in their MRI or EEG.
And by the way (not really sure which of the two sides this supports), the suicidal depression that transgender experience has proven to exist equally after the surgeries. The suicide rate did not go down in those who were able to realize their dream.
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