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Not sure what the whole debate is about, trump is just a very successful businessman who did wonders making brands and buying up projects and turning them over to good which is exactly what he’s doing. he is just making a brand for himself as the strong anti-washington outsider and as soon as he wins the nomination he’ll tone it down and after the presidency is his he’ll stp altogether. its just a way of him being unique which no one can deny that he has been his whle career
FDA certifying carrots would do nothing to prevent poisoning.
The FDA banning carrots that are not proven to be non-poisonous, during a time when people were getting poisoned from poison hemlock, could save lives.
How?
If poisonous product is commingled with non-poisonous product, the most effective way to insure no one gets poisoned is to discard the bunch unless you can identify with certainty which ones are non-poisonous.
But the FDA has no control over the wild carrots that got confused with the poison hemlock. The price of food would go up and families would starve for no reason and people would be poisoned even more because they would go foraging for the rare delicacy called carrot.
According to today’s Jerusalem Post Trump wants to go up on Har HaBayit. Would any of you astute observers want to hazard a guess as to what will happen?
The question is whether to compare it to mushrooms instead, which have a few poisonous strains, but with a little knowledge of what’s what those can be avoided.
If the guys working at immigration would be competent to make the assessment of who’s dangerously radical and who’s a “good guy” we wouldn’t need this argument. I personally don’t have trust in their capabilities, as recent events have shown.
MW13 -“And here I was thinking I had finally found a topic that nobody could tie into Zionism. But apparently on the YWCR that’s never the case.
You are far more obsessed with Zionism than any Zionist I have ever met”
There’s nothing wrong with being obsessed with Zionism. It’s Avoda Zora, but even if it’s not, at least it’s based on Kefirah.
Every Frum Jew should be opposed to it!
How come your Not?!?
“The terrorists that have attacked this country have been in this country legally, and for anybody with the means and will it fairly easy to get into this country legally (particularly from the EU, which many radicalized Muslims reside in).”
Congratulations, mw, you just accidentally gave a great argument for why Trump’s recent proposal is necessary.
It is kind of funny how literally 100% of YWN threads end up being about Zionism if they last long enough. But, I admit, I did notice that there is a clear divide between the Zionists and the non-Zionists as to whether or not to support Trump. The Zionists must want the US to follow Israel’s model of putting Muslims on a pedestal and giving them greater liberties than those of our own people.
Health: Now i know why you are supporting Trump! Both of you make asinine, dangerous statements. Both of you give strength to the enemies of the Jews ,namely the Arabs. Both of you seem to hate the state of israel. Both of you make bigoted statements about your opponents….yup- now I know why you are supporting Trump!
Neville ChaimBerlin,
There’s nothing “fascist” about representing a majority of a democratic country. The only fascists on this thread are the ones saying their opinions outweigh the majority of the country.
Can you supply any proof that Trump’s statements or positions are in line with a majority of Americans? Especially when a recent NYT/CBS News poll found that 64% of respondents were concerned or frightened by the prospect of a Trump presidency and what he would do as president, including a third of registered Republicans?
Neville ChaimBerlin
Blocked – +2
Of course after days of non-stop liberal media articles claiming that agreeing with Trump equates to racism, the polls will be a bit skewed. You think if an anonymous poll had asked Americans about limiting Muslim immigration days after the Boston marathon bombing or after 9/11 the numbers would be under 50% in support? It’s common sense!
After the Paris attacks, liberals didn’t even wait for the rigor-mortus to set in before they were singing the praises of Islam; it’s disgusting. Want to define caring more about the real victims than the attackers as racism? Fine, sign me up because that makes any decent human being a “racist.”
Mussolini had a lot of support from Italy’s Jews, many of whom were very assimilated into Italian ways of thinking. Italy had even had a Jewish Prime Minister before World War I and nobody would have believed that Mussolini, who like Trump is not personally anti-Semitic, would ever turn on them. Some other Italian Jews tried to point out their errors but they were shouted down (in some cases, literally).
History is now repeating itself. Many totally assimilated American Jews, some of whom even keep Shabat and Kashrut and pray three times a day, are supporting Trump. This will not end well.
The Islamic terrorists are far more committed to terrorism than to Islam. Plus there is no “Islam test” that could show whether a person is a Muslim. They could just pretend not to be Muslim.
For all Trump supporters: If you did not notice, Trump just cancelled his trip to israel. mmm..I wonder why? So, that fat liar says it is because he does not want to put pressure on Bibi. The truth is that he got annoyed when Bibi criticized his comments. A man so thin-skinned, a man who insults anyone who dares to open his mouth against him,a man who takes umbrage when anyone opposes him in the slightest, such a man is the most dangerous person to hold such high office. Ads of mushroom clouds will appear on TV the moment he becomes the Republican nominee. And like Goldwater, he will drag the republicans into oblivion. And note that he is NOT very pro-Israel.
” trump is just a very successful businessman”
Who abused eminent domain and bankruptcy laws to run roughshod over others. Whose most visible business enterprises are beauty pageants and casinos, of which no frum Jew should approve. And who would have been more successful had he simply taken the hundreds of millions he inherited from his father and invested them in Berkshire Hathaway or a stock index fun.
latest on trump:
TRUMP CANCELLED HIS TRIP TO ISRAEL even after Netanyahu said he will take his invitation & welcome him
ROB -“Health: Now i know why you are supporting Trump!”
Why do you make up stories? Is it because your liberalism is affecting your mind?
BTW, I like Bush, but I’m defending Trump’s right to free speech!
Do you think only the leftists have that right? To call s/o that doesn’t think like them a fascist?!?
“Both of you give strength to the enemies of the Jews ,namely the Arabs.”
Wrong! The ones who give strength to our enemies is the Zionists, by their rebellion against Hashem! And the Zionist’s belief in appeasement, such as giving back GAZA & the West Bank!
“Both of you seem to hate the state of israel”
So what’s wrong with that? You’re supposed to hate Reshayim!!!
Health, on the contrary, the anti-Zionists are rebelling against Hashem and aiding our enemies. BTW, we are not supposed to hated reshaim but only ra (Berachot 10a).
Avi K, you are wrong. It is a befeirushe Gemorah in Pesochim 113 that it is a mitsva to hate reshoim (btw, not all Zionists are reshoim). The Gemorah in Brochos talks about davening for reshoim to die. It is already a different shailah. The reshoim from Brochos 10A were of the type that you are not supposed to daven for them to die.
Health: Trump has every right to propagate his fascist views but a fascist he still is-see mw13 posting just above- and he is the most dangerous man in the US right now. If elected -chas vesholom- he will become a one man dictator within months.
As far as your other points, you are living in a fantasy world all of your own and of neturei karta. If you cannot see that your proposal to dismantle the medinah and give it over to Arabs condemn millions of jews to slavery and death, then you truly need psychological help.
By hating Israel , you are , of course, denying one of the ikrei emunah,namely the arrival of Melech Hamoshiach.
Mdd, that does not apply in our time (Chazon Ish Yoreh Deah 2,16 and see also Rambam Hilchot Mamrim 3,3 and Rema Yoreh Deah 340,5). Even in Chazal’s time it only applied where one was a witness to an aveira. If that applied in our time we would all have to hate each other. Start off with all those who smoke in public and drivers who violate traffic laws.
I support Israel’s Law of return…muslims shouldn’t have the right to immigrate there.
Avi K, the Chazon Ish’s leniency is disputed by most Poskim, past and present.
You need witnesses only if a fellow is presumed to be an erliche Yid. your other reference (the Rambam) aplly to tinok she’nishbah. I am talking about those who are not.
“muslims shouldn’t have the right to immigrate there.”
Israel has never banned non-Jews from immigrating. It does, however, prevent people considered security risks from getting guns. Ironically, Trump has been more sensible on this than most other Republicans as he has not opposed prohibiting suspected terrorists from being able to get guns here in the US.
Mdd,
1. On the contrary, it is supported by virtually all poskim today.
2. Who is presumed to be an “erliche Yid” in today’s anonymous society? For that matter, what is an “erliche Yid”. Someone who keeps Shabbat but lies, cheats and steals? Is someone who shirks his duty to join the IDF presumed to be an erliche Yid?
Avi K, I meant Rabbis other than Israeli Mizrachi Rabbis.
Anyone who does an aveirah knowingly is a rasha.
Avi K, btw, that’s why Rabbonim tell witnesses by a get(divorce) to do teshuvah right there — so that they should not be considered reshoim who are posul le’eidus.
Mdd,
1. I dispute you.
2. Correct.
3. Why only a get? What about kiddushin? Baruch Hashem I have ben to many weddings, including Chareidi weddings, and I never heard a messader kiddushin say this.
Not to mention the fact that several pundits have described the Trump phenomenon as a form of identity politics. Coupled with other forms of identity politics such as Black Lives Matter it bodes ill for the future of America as a country based on unity in diversity. At worst ti could lead to Lebanonization.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
Of course after days of non-stop liberal media articles claiming that agreeing with Trump equates to racism, the polls will be a bit skewed. You think if an anonymous poll had asked Americans about limiting Muslim immigration days after the Boston marathon bombing or after 9/11 the numbers would be under 50% in support? It’s common sense!
1. The poll I cited was conducted before Trump’s Muslim immigration ban statement and the subsequent media furor, so sorry, your point of attack does not even apply.
2. Trump’s supporters by and large despise the “liberal media”, so the more he’s attacked, the more they like him.
3. After ranting about liberals thinking that the majority of Americans are “too stupid” to govern, it’s truly ironic that you turn around and make what is essentially the very same argument.
Avi K:
1. I am not going to argue with you about metziyus.
3. Because a get is much more chomur. If it is posul, there is going to be a woman who is still married possibly getting married to a strange man (with all that it implies).
Mdd,
1. OK. Howeevr, I note your sheeta of simply poseling rabbanim who disagree with you. Thus “most” rabbanim pasken your way.
2. In any case, saying “I’m sorry” is not enough regarding aveirot ben adam v’chaveiro. For example, if someone stole he must reimburse his victim.
ROB -“Health: Trump has every right to propagate his fascist views but a fascist he still is-see mw13 posting just above-“
He’s not a fascist! Just because it’s in 1 definition, doesn’t mean it’s in all!
“and he is the most dangerous man in the US right now.”
Wrong! Obama is!
“If elected -chas vesholom- he will become a one man dictator within months.”
He’s not like all the DemonKrats, that were elected Pres.!
“If you cannot see that your proposal to dismantle the medinah and give it over to Arabs condemn millions of jews to slavery and death,”
Enough with your Zionist lies & scare tactics! Are they all in slavery or in the grave in Yemen or Iran?!?
“By hating Israel , you are , of course, denying one of the ikrei emunah,namely the arrival of Melech Hamoshiach.”
Believing Zionism is the beginning of the Geula, is Kefirah!
Avi K – “Mdd, that does not apply in our time (Chazon Ish Yoreh Deah 2,16 and see also Rambam Hilchot Mamrim 3,3 and Rema Yoreh Deah 340,5). Even in Chazal’s time it only applied where one was a witness to an aveira. If that applied in our time we would all have to hate each other”
The Chofetz Chaim holds it even applies in our day & age!
“After ranting about liberals thinking that the majority of Americans are “too stupid” to govern, it’s truly ironic that you turn around and make what is essentially the very same argument.”
How? By standing by a frontrunner’s national security plan? Jimmy Carter restricted Iranian immigration, FDR did much worse to the Japanese. It has been shown many times on this thread that Trump’s plan is by no means radical when put into historical perspective. If you chose to turn the blind eye to that, it’s not my problem. You’re perfectly allowed to disagree with his ideas; Trump’s supporters aren’t the ones doing the censoring here. If American voters want to bend over and let Islam win, that’s our right. If what you’re saying is true and most Americans want more Muslims in the country (let me remind everyone that pollsters just found that two thirds of Palestinians support the terrorists, so don’t even think about trying the “most are good people” defense), then let them vote accordingly and those of us who disagree will vote accordingly.
Health, please cite your source.
Neville, it is true that Carter ordered the cancellation of Iranian-U.S. visas and a moratorium on new visas, with exceptions for humanitarian and otherwise compelling situations. However, that is not the same as Trump’s plan. Carter’s actions were in retaliation for the taking of American hostages with the connivance of the new government. Trump wants a restriction on a religious basis because of the actions of individuals. This would be akin to banning Jewish immigration because of the likes of Emma Goldman (not to mention Trotsky, who lived in the Bronx after being forced to flee Czarist Russia)and Lepke Buchalter (whose actions even shocked Lucky Luciano). Not to mention that the plan is unworkable. As Rabbi Pruzansky pointed out, how would a person’s religion be determined? By asking him?
Avi K, it is all over seifer “Chofetz Chaim”.
Avi K, the comprasion to the Jewish immigration is outrageous as far the nature and magnitude of threat go!
Neville ChaimBerlin,
How? By standing by a frontrunner’s national security plan?
No. It was your excuse, when prevented with evidence refuting your claim of the “majority”, that American voters are easily swayed.
To paraphrase our argument:
Neville: The silent majority of Americans agrees with this!
Avram: Actually, recent polling data show otherwise.
Neville: Then they’re just brainwashed.
Really? Do you know what the majority of Americans think better than they do themselves?
It has been shown many times on this thread that Trump’s plan is by no means radical when put into historical perspective.
And as I already responded above, your historical context argument would also apply to slavery, Jim Crow laws, and forced sterilizations.
To put it simply: just because it has historical precedent does not mean it is reasonable or right.
You’re perfectly allowed to disagree with his ideas; Trump’s supporters aren’t the ones doing the censoring here.
Now this is interesting. Who is censoring Trump? Has he been arrested for his speeches? Does he have to wear an ankle monitor because of what he has said? Has the government ordered newspapers to stop any coverage of him?
No. The only thing that has happened is that people who disagree with him have exercised their own First Amendment rights, and you seem to have a problem with that.
Avi K – It’s all over the Sefer Chafetz Chaim. Open one up.
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