True *ask you LOR* Story: Yesterday…

Make the proper brocha achrona – Ahl Hamichya

You cant always ask your LOR

Yesterday I was in the supermarket parking lot unloading my shopping cart and these 2 women (Probably a mother and daughter) and the older woman asks me if she can have the shopping cart (I was done with it) and I gave it to her.

She then told me she was a holocaust Survivor (She sounded like an old jewish grandmother) and insisted on giving me a brocha. Being that she was a survivor she must have been close to 90 or higher. I mean she really wanted to give me a brocha, Like put her hand on my head and give me a Brocha. The other woman (probably her daughter) was looking horrified.

So I ask the Oilam, What would you do if some 90ish year old woman insisted on putting her hand on your head to give you a brocha. You cant ask your LOR there is no time

Survivors are exempt for halacha?

All the survivors I know well are meticulous with halacha. And if they are mistaken and are corrected, they are very happy to be told the correct halacha.

What if she’s a sorceress?

Since she said she was a survivor, she was likely quite old and didnt have all her senses (It sort of seemed that way to me)

So Joseph what would you have told a 90ish woman who said they were a surivivor that likely didnt have all their senses if they wanted to put their hand on your head to give you a Brocha

What would you have told a 90ish woman who said they were a surivivor that likely didnt have all their senses if they wanted you to make a brocho l’vatala or wanted you to put a Chumash in the beis hakisei?

Joseph, you do realize that many survivors are not religious. Survivors who abandoned frumkeit cannot be rebuked by anyone who didn’t go thru the Holocaust.

I cant say for sure, but it was in the parking lot of a frum store and the woman and her daughter looked frum (They were wearing hats)

Zdad,

Did you touch her or were you passive?

Additionally I once helped an old lady cross the street and I asked my rebbe afterwards and he told me you would be a chassid shoteh if you didn’t help her

LB – I am very impressed! Since you weren’t sure which bracha to make, you did the correct thing and didn’t make a bracha at all, rather than run the risk of a bracha l’vatala.

As you correctly pointed out in another thread, when you are not sure if you should be making a bracha or not (and have no way to find out), it is better to not make a bracha than to run the risk of making a bracha l’vatala.

I happen to think that this is an extremely difficult (although very important) halacha to keep. The natural instinct is to make a bracha even when there is a doubt rather than not say a bracha at all. Not saying a bracha feels very uncomfortable.

Personally, I find that not saying a bracha when there is doubt is a very big nisayon, so I am impressed. Shkoyach!

If you have a food with an unknown, the best thing to do is find two other foods to make brachos on, that cover the possible brachos of the food you had, and include it that way. So if you have cheesecake that may be al hamichya or borei nefashos, eat some mezonos and some shehakol and have in mind that the cheesecake is covered. It is best not to forgo a bracha at all if you have a means of making one.

or do the suggestion I made above. (I should have stated so specifically but I was referring to bracha acharona as well)

ZD – if you were passive, what is the sheilah? Is it that she asked you first, so you could have said “yes” or “no”? Or she didn’t ask you, but you could have spoken up before she did it?

I’m not a Poseik and I don’t know what the correct thing to do would have been, but under the circumstances, having to make an immediate decision, and not having anyone to ask, it sounds like you acted admirably under the circumstances. I would be curious to know what a reliable halachic authority would say about it.

Regarding my previous question though, could you have bent down or sat down?

“You’re not allowed to eat without saying a brachah. If you don’t know the correct brachah, find out, otherwise eat something else or don’t eat.”

Who/what was this in response to?

“However, she should have called a rav, or at least some type of Bais Horaah (or perhaps look it up on a reliable website). I don’t know if any if those options were available to her, though.”

I was assuming that those options weren’t available or she would have done so. (or at the very least – they were available, but for some reason, she didn’t think of it or was uncomfortable).
In any case, for whatever reason, she apparently felt like like her only options were either: a) not making a bracha, or b) making a guess as to which bracha to say.

Since, (for whatever reason) she felt as though those were her only 2 options, she did the correct thing by choosing a) even though it would have been very tempting to choose b), and some might have done so, so I felt it deserved commendation.

I wasn’t getting into what she should do in the future, since I thought it was important to first praise her for acting correctly in this case, based on her current knowledge.

And btw, I would be a bit hesitant about the website idea. And hasn’t that already been discussed?

1- An interesting fact about about many cereals, including Cheerios is that while still %100 MEZONOS and Al hamichya they are holding on to that level, at least for now. You see, due to modern day health attitude ( not up for discussion whether correct or not,it is what it is) that flour is no good they just write whole grain oats. Real oats or wheat, as in nature bars are usually paskened as haadama. However they obviously have found some type of loophole which allows them to basically grind it but not enough that legally they have to write flour. Halachically it’s still ground and is MEZONOS but there’s no telling what the next fad shall bring. Obviously even if by accident one said shehakol the bracha after is Al hamichya.
2- It is a wonderful thing when someone, especially a survivor, wants to bless you. Livin’ down South we actually bang into bible respecting individuals who want to bless you so that they too should be blessed,as it says by Avraham. You didn’t say clearly that she felt she needed to put her hands on your head and men- women issue was involved. Could’ve smiled and told her great thank you very much just no need to touch,if you wish you can hover. I will respond amen and bless you as well. With such words she would be quite happy and would not force touching.