Treatment of teens off the derech

I too knew so many troubled teens, guys and girls that lived through a very difficult time period in their life. Some turned to drugs and alcohol and many completely left the religion. Most of these guys and girls are now in their upper twenties and one thing that I have noticed was that in general, the ones that were shown love by their families and knew that they had a home to come home to are the ones that are now normal, functioning adults. I sense from what you wrote that you love your child deeply and understand that she is going through a most difficult time period in her life. Keep doing that. Get her help but make sure she always knows that you love her no matter what and you want her to keep living at home with you. You can’t control how others treat her but at least she’ll know that you only want the best for her. Good luck to you and your daughter and may God bless you both and protect her.

Would your daughter be interested in going to Israel, I have heard of a program that works with off the derech girls.

First off, I would like to say my heart goes out to you and your daughter and may Hashem give both of you the strength to persevere while facing this challenge. We don’t have a crystal ball to see what the end will have in store for us. It is my hope that your daughter will be able to find peace of mind with in herself and then to be able to find her place within Yiddishkeit (where ever and whatever that level might be).

This year as a personal project, I have been looking into kids-at-risk and trying to understand what it is that makes observant Jews (or those coming from such homes) turn away from yiddishkeit. It’s not a new project since I too have been in the midst of being involved with a close realtive who is struggling with his connection to Hashem and finding his place with in religion. Yet this year as I see more and more people fighting within themself or dealinig with relatives, I’m hoping to make an impact (if even just in my home) to help reach out to others.

B’H, along our journy down this unexpected route, I think that all of us have gained from the impact that we have had on each other. However, there is an excellent book called “Off the derech, how to respond to the challenge” written by Faranak Margolese (who is an observant Jew) who was motiviated by her own struggles, did the research and put together this book that opens your eyes from the perspective of someone on the other side of the fence. (here are other good books as well as how to kindle a soul, and chinuch in turbulent times) I would recomend this reading for all parents, prospective parents and those dealioing with kids off the derech. While it would be impossible to write down everything in a simple short post, there are a few things that I would like to share.

First off, we need to stop the shunning and rejecting. Yes, it may make us uncomfortable to see others dress and acting differently but how hard is it to wish a good shabbos or good morning to them (even a simple hi). Plus if we can manage a smile we say it how good it might actually make them feel. Ignoring them won’t change them or make them go away and outright criticiisim or rejection will just reinforce what led them down this path in the first place.

Next, while we need to set up consistant homes and lifestyles and concrete rules, we also need to give unconditional love. Stop judging people (as well as our children) by their actions but by who they are and who they can be. They are not malachim and it is ok to make mistakes.

Find a positive approach to reach your goal. Instead of yelling at your child for not wearing a Kippah, tell them why it’s nice to wear one (and praise them one day when they are wearing it properly). Also keep in mind, the more you try to “force” them in keeping the mitzvoh them more likely they will rebel.

Find ways to make Yiddishkeit beautiful through your actions. Think of ways of connecting religion and belief in a way that you can share it with your children. Whatinspired you as a kid, what inspires your kids?

Treat others fairly, look for the positive and avoid negative talk.

Listen to your children with an open mind. They might be telling you a lot more than you realize and don’t be afraid to talk about topics that ask questions about religion.

Last treat your family (your kids as well as all kids) with respect. Think about their feelings and what makes them feel important. Make them feel like they are part of something good.

to lkaufman..we have people here givin b’h good eitozs so we cant add, but if there is some way you can post her name, i mean like ‘rochel bas chaneh’ when we say tehilem can have in mind..yes we read that tehillem helps for this too,can be stranger doesnt have to be parents.

lkaufman –

Your letter is heartbreaking.

Most people probably don’t know how to deal with or talk to an “at-risk” teen, so they just avoid them.

We (I) should keep in mind that these are neshomos that need warmth and guidance, not troublemakers to be shunned and avoided.

B”H your daughter has caring parents who are involved and doing what they can to help her.

Feif Un –

The perspective of someone who has gone thru what this girl is now experiencing can be extremely helpful.

Most ffb’s (like me) can try to understand, but it will be from an “outsider’s” point of view.

Tizku limitzvos for “making lemonade from lemons” by using your personal tribulations to help others.

Dear lkaufman,

I wish you much hatzlacha. And yes, the Israel trip is bound to bring great peiros, even if you don’t see it right away.

That she is sweet and focused – she’s in school and starting college – should give you great hope. So many of the kids who stray these days seem to not have anything substantial to focus on. That your relationship and view of her is so positive is wonderful.

Maybe as an adult she will meet people who will reach her in ways that were not accessible as a child. There are great Jewish college programs and wonderful people on campuses. JAAM, and the Maimonides programs come to mind.

That is wonderful that your daughter is going to college and plans on going on Birthrite. There are many parents of off the Derech teens that wish for that, as they watch their teens destroy themselves with drugs, alchohol, sex, and cutting. Show your daughter that you are proud of her and what she is doing positive in her life. Try to maintain a close relationship with her. As far as finding a Rov that will show her the beauty of being frum, is your daughter interested in speaking with a Rov? Is she able to even listen to his answers? A Rov can speak all day with these kids, but if their ears are not open and receptive, it is very difficult. It is very sad. But Boruch Hashem she is alive, and healthy, and young. keep being optimistic and above all very patient. I suffer with you, I’ve got one also….

jjlkwd- why don’t you try contacting rabbi mitnick. i understand he has had tremendous hatzlochoh with these teens. He is their friend and the kids know they can trust him. Maybe coming from a different perspective he would be able to make headway with your son. Hatzlochoh rabah!!

Most of these replies seem to focus entirely on the “at risk” teen, but ignore the rest of the family and the community at large. What is a parent to do if there are many children in the family and one (or more) is acting in a way that has negative influence on the other children? If your daughter is dressing in ways that make it impossible for you (as a father) and your sons to make brachos when she is in the room, what are you supposed to do?

If your daughter is having phone conversations with explicit references to certain subjects in the presence of the other family members, what are you supposed to do?

Is it possible that by trying to save one child you might sacrifice another child? How does one choose? It seems to me that an “at risk” child can cause us to focus on that child so much that the others come to feel that they have to “act out” if they want any real attention from their parents.

Also, don’t be so quick to condemn people for their reactions. As ONLY ONE other poster pointed out, at risk girls who dress like “normal teen-agers” make it assur to look in their direction. Instead of criticizing people, make a suggestion. What is a frum man supposed to do when he sees a girl coming in his direction who is barely dressed? What if that girl is his daughter and she’s coming to the Shabbos table dressed in a short sleeved tee shirt and a skirt that rides up over he knees?

On a separate note: There was a mention about these kids being lazy. I think it’s also important to note that sometimes what we perceive as lazy is in reality a symptom of depression. They are “task avoidence” due to the fact that they don’t feel connected to the world. They want to “shut down”/ “shut off” or what ever they can do to avoid the pain life gives them at this point.

lkaufman, I’m 99% sure it is Flatbush.

I never went to MASK, but I did get help from project YES. My husband and I got free advise and counseling, and my other children got big brothers and sisters to take them out and talk to them. I actually own a tape in which Rov Shmuel Kamenetzky answers the question of whether or not to keep a child at risk home. I will try to listen to it again and quote his answer acurately, as it’s been a while since I listened to it.

lkaufman, from the way you write I can tell you are a very good person, and you will IY”H have nachas from your child, just hang on and be very patient, it takes time and these kids need love and patience to work things through. LOTS OF LOVE, I cannot stress this enough. and acceptance. Benzy 18 also wrote many things that made sense to me.

Bentzy18:

You write that “there’s a bigger picture” however your bigger picture consists of one person, the “at risk” teen. I see a bigger picture which takes in the whole family.

Also, you paint with a pretty broad brush. I don’t agree that every “at risk” teen is a life/death situation. You may find this hard to accept, but some kids simply don’t want a spiritual perspective, be it religion or anything else. Some kids simply want to live a secular life-style and it doesn’t necessarily have to do with life-threatening crises.

As a parent with several children, I think it’s unfair to focus on one child to the exclusion of the genuine needs of the others. If a child had, Chas V’shalom, a terrible accident, the parents would certainly tend to that child but would not ignore the needs of the rest of the family.

Your advocacy for the “at risk” kid is commendable, but I think YOU are the one who is not seeing a bigger picture. Perhaps it’s time we realize that as kids grow, they have to assume responsibility for their choices. Just because a kid doesn’t feel like putting on tefilin or dressing properly, that doesn’t mean we parents have to be blackmailed by holding life/death situations over our heads. Perhaps these kids ought to “get over themselves” and just GROW UP, as the rest of us have had to.

Yussel, you are right, not all kids who go off the derech are in a life or death situation (well physical death that is). There are many people who left the fold and have lived long lives. Maybe it’s important to distinguish between the two, since kids-at-risk are usually further down the spiral descent than just giving up on religion. So for this moment I will just comment about going off the derech.

Next, I don’t know if you were able to focus on where I was going, maybe it wasn’t clear or maybe you are stuck on this kid issue, but “the big picture” really deals with the events of the family and/or community that interacted with this teen that brought him to this point. Why would all of a sudden a child who goes to a Jewish school, raised by religious parents, sheltered in an environment that guides how we eat, how we dress, what we should say, how we act (and so on) turn around when he is a teen and say, no thanks, I don’t feel like being religious anymore? I have yet to meet a teen or young adult who was born in a religious stable family that decided it was too much of a burden. It is only after investigating and looking into the “big picture” do we see that there were many outside factors that contribute to it. Most of the time it is some sort of rejection for not living up to the expectations that were set for him. These rejections might have come from his/her parents, their teachers and Rabbi’s or the social circle they were raised in.

If it were just motivation that he was lacking then how will telling him to “get over yourself” ever accomplish bringing him back to the fold? We as part of Klal Yisroel are responsible for each other and are just as much responsible to him/her in showing the beauty that lies within Yiddishkeit.

I think we agree that you don’t exclude any other child in a family (which I stated very clearly in my post)for the needs of just one. However, as a parent, I know that you sometimes have to prioritize your attention to the child that needs it the most. If you are unable to be there physically or mentally for everyone, then you get help. Focusing on a child that is going off the Derech doesn’t mean that you have to miss your sons chumash play, or daughters doctor appointment or even doing bed time with your kids. It can be a challenge, it can be hard and there will be times you question yourself if you can do it, but it can be done.

Because of the wording directed towards me in your post, there is something that has touched a sore point with you. I don’t know what that may be. But, what I do know is that these kids don’t just happen to loose faith. I have yet to meet a kid or person born in a religious family who has left religion behind because it was too hard. If a parent feels like they are being blackmailed into submission in order to control the behaviors of a child then they have to look back into what events put them to where they are now. Kids (and teens) by nature look up to their parents as the most important people in the world. It is through the mitzvah of k’vod av v’ aim that we are able to comprehend that there is a Rebona Shel Olem. Something happened that broke the connection between the parent and child and it wasn’t the child who did the damage. This isn’t a belief, this is a fact based on statistics on Jewish kids who went off the derech. A child who finds the need to “hurt” their parents by acting out is merely reacting to something that was done to them. So yes it’s not “fair” to the rest of the family to deal with this, but then again “fair” wasn’t in the equation when they were young with the dealings and actions done to them.

Last point, what is there to be done when the actions of the teen are affecting the other kids in the family. For that there is no easy answer and one must speak to a qualified Rav who is competent in such matters. However like many have mentioned there are several groups and Robbonim who deal and assist with such matters. It is not an easy call, and needs to be handled with the greatest of sensitivity. He is not a rasha and all the halachos related bein adom l’chaveroh apply.

lkaufman: I AM dealing with a similar situation at home. It’s a little complicated but be assured I’m speaking from experience.

bentzy18:

First: I disagree with the attitude that lays ALL responsibility for the teen-agers actions at the door-step of the parents. Tell me, who do you know that grew up with no issues between themselves and their parents? Is there a human being alive on this planet who doesn’t have “issues” with Mom and Dad? Yet somehow, people manage to grew up and get on with their lives even in the face of “issues”. I think your perspective is a product of our “victim” oriented culture that sees everybody as a victim who is not able to take responsibility for their actions.

Second: When I write about neglecting the rest of the family, I’m not writing about skipping a chumash play or missing a bed-time story. I’m talking about dealing with the problem of different standards for each child. What do you do when you have a daughter who is, for example, dressed inappropriately, and brining her “friends” to the house and your other daughter (who is an “eidel” Bais Yaakov girl) feels that she has no place in her own home beacuse her parents are compromising on Yiddishkeit for her sister? Perhaps that “eidel” daughter will begin to act out (anorexia comes to mind) and then what do you do?

Third: I reject the notion that leaving the “derech” is always a product of emotional issues. That attitude reminds me of the old USSR where they would put political opponents in mental hospitals. A perfectly normal and well-balanced person can still choose a secular life style. To say otherwise is to reject “bechira Chofshis”.

Teenagers have it much more challenging then adults give credit for. You have to take in to consideration a couple of things before you get to the rebellious role in all this. Now, as young as 11 or 12, kids are maturing in to adulthood. Their bodies are changing. Hormones are racing through them they don’t know how to control, New emotions start emerging which a large part of the time goes unnoticed by the adults, Brains, Weight and Looks suddenly becomes a more important topic, Being accepted is a major priority now more than ever, They are starting to think for themselves and have loads of questions on just about everything in life. So when you have a teen who gets ignored in any of these areas (not intentionally sometimes), and especially if their self esteem is suffering, they “act out” to get noticed, to fit in with some of the crowds, a feeling of non acceptance by their family, friends or community, and sometimes just by pure boredom. The list of reasons can go on forever, but the point I’m making is, there is usually a reason for a teen to rebel. So for anyone who looks at these teens (& parents) with such harsh negative judgement, and disgrace, just think about your teen years, and your own teenagers, because chances are, it may be happening to them. I knew someone that loved to gossip about other people’s “troubled teens” and didn’t realize that her own children were in trouble, and now the gossip is on her. Don’t judge these teens, if you are going to stare and have an opinion, why don’t you use that energy for helping them not pushing them further away from religion.

micr63:

Have you ever heard of Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz? The reason I am thinking of him is because he recently wrote on his site about kids switching schools. He also just put out this book on parenting. You can google him or Project Yes. Oiy, your kid is 16, such a hard age! Hang on, it will get better, G-d willing. Just be very VERY patient.

lkaufman: Thank you for your kind words and thank you for starting the thread in the first place. As I’m sure this is not an easy path to go down, you have shared a part of your life with us and I’m sure we are all that much better for it.

Yussel, I want to thank you for your opinions and start off by saying that you too must be going through a hard and terrible matziv in your life. While we may disagree on many points I hope and pray for you that Shalom may return to what ever situation you and your family may be dealing with.

Next: I want to start off by stating that my main reason(s) for responding to your posts is to:

-a- Continue a dialog so that others who may be reading this will get a better perspective of what happens to a teen who goes off the Derech. We are a very proud nation and are quick to respond when our religion is threatened and attacked. It is so easy to misread the actions of these kids and thus we as nation are not able to properly deal with the problem. Something has to be done, but only by properly identifying the problem will we be effective in dealing with it.

-b- To be an advocate for these kids who often don’t have a voice speaking up for them. Many of them are too bitter to speak up for themselves and many were not given the skills to speak up. Many of them actually believe that they don’t deserve a voice and that this life of misery is a way of G-d punishing them for not being the perfect Jew.

-c- I too was just like Yussel at one point, until our teen at risk was dropped at our doorposts. Through a unique sequence events, a close relative whom needed to get away, came to stay with us for a few weeks winded up becoming a permanent resident. Over time I was able to see into a world that I didn’t know existed and see a very different perspective. Gehenim is a good way to describe it and B”H my kids (as well as us) have grown in ways that I could never imagine. It took a lot of work on a lot of people’s part, but B’H we are living in a different world that I could never hope of being. (This relative is now stable, actively involved with my kids as a “positive” role model, completing his education and looking to take it to the next level where he will be in the position to help others)

OK, now to deal with your last post.

As I wrote my last post I tried very hard from putting the “blame” on anyone in particular. This whole Teen-off-the-derech is a very complex situation with many factors that could be the cause. As far as responsibility I’m a big believer that as parents we are the first layer of defense and have the responsibility to either shield our kids from bad things or to give them the skills to cope when life hands you lemons. Many times parents are not to blame for when their kids go off the Derech. There are (some) authority figures out there, who mean well, but are destroying children non-the-less. Sometimes it is a matter of actively feeding a all or nothing derech / approach, sometimes it’s by sitting back and letting injustice being done (like when a kid is being bullied or called shvartzah because his darker skin, or shegetz because he played with cats in the street). However, it is only the parent who would be able to pick up their children’s subtle cries for help in their youth way before it spirals into something unimaginable years later. (I also mention that in this day and age, parents are working harder and sometimes are not able to see the signs) However, to get back to the point, we need to identify where things were “disconnected” so that the individual can cope and bring closure to that aspect of their life.

Do I think that our cultural “victim” mentality is blinding us as well as our youth from taking responsibility (for things on this magnitude) ? NO I don’t. At what age do you consider a youth to be grown up enough to do this? There is a reason why we are not held responsible for the big averos until we are 20. There is a reason why society doesn’t allow teens (regardless of their physical size or intelligence) the right, to drive, vote, join the army or drink and now even smoke.

Before I go on I would like to divide this into two categories of responsibility and explain why these kids off the derech would have trouble with both.

First off is the responsibility between them and Hashem (as well as acceptance of religion). First off, as mentioned earlier, the mitzvohs/spiritual obligations are not given to us to be fun. There will be times when it will be hard and inconvenient. Still, they were given to us to make us into better people and to bring us closer to Hashem. However, this would only be affective when the individual can feel the growth or positive happening with in themselves. If kids are given a diet of dry meaningless rules of which they must follow or else, what incentive or motivation will there be to follow? Kids by nature want to fit in, and when they start becoming independent, what is going to happen when they feel nothing positive towards religion? When would anyone under the circumstance be able to grow up and get with it? There is no free will in this circumstance. The beauty and value of Yiddishkeit was not given effectively and thus there is no balance to make the person want to follow in these ways.

Then there is the responsibility towards the family or just being a mentch. Most of the behaviors that we possess are a mixture of our natural dispositions as well as the environment that we were raised in. (The whole nature vs. nurture aspect) When a teen wishes to not follow the rules of the house you have to identify what exactly the child is doing when the rules are being broken. Is the outburst a result of a larger temper tantrum given so that they can get their way or is it the result of many years of frustration or lack of stability that is causing this outburst. The parents have the right as well as the responsibility to establish and enforce the rules of the home (as well as religion) as they see fit. However, sechel/proper judgment must be used to make sure that the consequence (positive/nagative) is appropriate to the action as well as the means of enforcement are practical. For example, teen girl comes to table dressed in appropriately. On one hand this is your home, your table, and your comfort zone, so you have a right demand how people should be dressed. On the other side, religion doesn’t mean much in the area of Tznius to this girl, and she feels that she has the right to express herself (in her mode of dress) , so she feels wronged in being asked to accommodate her life choices to appeal to others. As a grown up, the parents are in the right and that is too bad. However, reality sets in and we have to ask of this is the battle that we are willing to loose everything on for? So what does a parent do, and honestly I don’t know. But what I do know is that this “battle” is the tip of an ice burg of a war of issues. This is when the alarm goes off that says you need to communicate and get outside help. This is where you can sit down with this girl, establish a compromise that meets both parties. You also need to find out why she needs to dress like this.

Now what about that aidel Bais Yaakov sister who feels like she doesn’t have a home to come to? Well, I want to be mean for a second (for shock value and to give a little insight to what her sister has faced from others) but my answer to her is that, as a good Bais Yaakov girl she should have learned that before we were born all of our problems that we would have to face in our lifetimes were shown to us. It is through these challenges that we become bigger and better people and this is one of those challenges. Plus, after all was said and done, we all agreed to undertake this mission and accepted it. So, my young girl, this is really your problem and you will just have to deal with it. (OK take a breath now & digest)

Reality: How unfair is it for me to say what I just did? What skills did I give over to her to either grow or effectivly deal with the sitution? The bottom line is that you are right Yussel that this girl-off-the-derech’s sister has a right to feel comfortable in her home. However, we need to understand that the rules that we have to follow are not going to be the same for everyone. Fairness is going to be different depending on the circumstances. I could suggest a few ideas that will allow both girls to have their say but it is something that needs to be addressed as a family in a calm environment. The teen off the derech needs a means to clarify why she doesn’t feel as a part of the family and why she needs to rebel and the teen who is affected needs to express her needs and desires and maybe the uncomfortable situtaion this creates, so that they (or an outside arbitrator) can make a compromise and game plan for both sides. What this might mean is switching days when they have friends over. This might mean having two entrances and places for their friends. I can’t tell you not knowing the dynamics or facts. Yet this is a lesson for both of them of how two opposite oppinions can find common ground.

Last I agree that off the derech can’t always be an emotional issue. There are times when a consistent exposure to things outside the norm that will erode our foundation and escalate from there. However I have yet to see a “teen” who went off the derech because of this alone. The free will of a healthy teen, would still be held in check because of the fear of his parents and their reaction to it. Later on, when he/she is on their own, then free will would dictate a possible break.

There are two separate issues with teens at risk. One is religion, the other is them being out on the streets. When I wasn’t frum, I wasn’t out on the streets. I went to school, I had a job, etc.

The problem is, when teens don’t want to be frum, a lot of their friends won’t have anything to do with them. At home, they are yelled at, punished, etc. They need to get out and find someone who they feel cares about them, and often, it is the people on drugs and on the streets who accept them.

Someone once asked me if I did drugs when I wasn’t frum, as it was “the thing those people do”. I replied that I had issues with religion and with G-d, but I wasn’t stupid. I know that drugs are bad for you, and avoided them. I didn’t want to throw my entire life away, I just had no interest in being religious.

Another issue is what drives these kids away in the first place. Many times, it’s a lack of understanding and no answers when you question. My wife is also a BT, and when we got engaged, she asked a rebbetzin at a tape gemach if there were any tapes or books she could recommend about covering her hair after marriage. The rebbetzin replied, “It’s das Yehudis, that’s the halachah! Why do you need to know why? Just do it!” Unfortunately, many people have that attitude, and it really puts off a lot of people. When I was in yeshiva, I had questions, and also didn’t receive answers. Also, a lot of the rabbis and “elter bochurim” seemed very hypocritical in a lot of their actions, and I said, if this is what being frum is about, I’m not interested.

To give an example (this was very early on, but I started with my issues when I was young), I was once sitting in class, and we were waiting for the rebbe to start teaching. I was in junior high, in a major Brooklyn yeshiva. The rebbe suddenly yelled at me, claiming I was talking and preventing him from starting the shiur. I replied that I wasn’t talking. he called me a liar and threw me out of the classroom. I sat outside the room for an hour, and the rebbe came out and asked me if I was willing to tell the truth. I told him I was, and I hadn’t been talking. He walked away. I sat outside the rest of the day. The next day, the same thing happened. he asked again, and I gave my same response. After that first time, he told me he wouldn’t ask again, but when I was ready, I could come in and publicly apologize to him. During that day, the menahel walked by, and asked why I was sitting outside. I told him what happened, and he asked, “Well, why don’t you just tell your rebbe that you were talking, apologize, and get it over with, even if you didn’t do it?” I told him I couldn’t do that, as I am not a liar, and wouldn’t say I was. He understood, and said he’d speak to the rebbe about it. The next morning, as I was again outside, the menahel came up to me, and told me he’d spoken to the rebbe. He said a boy who sat near me told the rebbe that he had been the one talking, and not me. I asked, “Why am I still outside?” He replied that the rebbe said I was chutzpadik when he said I was talking, and I contradicted him in front of the class. The rebbe said I should have said I was, and gone over to him later on, and told him privately that I wasn’t speaking. The rebbe never apologized to me for the incident. By the way, the rebbe wanted me to apologize for my chutzpa before he’d allow me back in. The menahel got him to let me in without it.

That was just one story. I have others like it. I’ve had rabbeim publicly embarrass me in front of the class because I wasn’t paying full attention, I’ve asked questions about things I didn’t understand, and was told I’m an apikores for questioning these things, etc.

That’s what made me not want to be frum. Kids need to see Judaism as a beautiful thing. They need good role models who will really show that the people who practice Judaism are worth emulating. Unfortunately, many people who work with our children an a daily basis are not worth emulating, and should not be working with them.