Touro or YU?

Shvartza Wolf -“Health: I guess you have the right to be insulted by whatever you want, but the facts remain: I didn’t call you a liar, I said you lied. (Yes, there is a difference.) And, that’s not an insult; it’s a fact.”

Enough with your so-called facts. Do you have any proof I lied? Basically – put up or shut up!

“You’ve claimed around a dozen times on this thread (by my estimate) that people have said motzi shem ra (in the thread) about Touro. I searched through this thread (when I condemned you for lying) and I couldn’t find one instance of this. Ergo, I’m convinced that you lied.”

It’s in the first page of this topic and I’m not going to repeat it here for you. Didn’t YU teach you to read every word?

“With regard to the second lie you said, it’s false that Dr. Lander “instituted all policies in any Touro school.”

He did and thats “a fact, not an insult”!

“Also, I’ve got a few questions for you?

1. Why do you think I have ga’ava?”

Because your posts are full of Gaivah.

“2. Why do you think I attend YU?”

Because you Paraphrase Professor Tendler. The most likely place where you would hear him speak is YU.

“3. Why do you think I am bitter at Touro?”

Safe to say – because why else do you feel the need to keep putting them down?!?

“Lashon Hara is an aveirah, true enough. I was responding to Health accusing me of motzi shem ra, which was an inaccurate claim. I think my offending statement was “ut, now that you mention it, there probably have been violations of halacha at Touro.” I’m not sure if this is lashon hara; maybe it is. Maybe I shouldn’t have said it.”

I was talking about sanctioned violations of Halacha, like they do in YU. Eg. Forums about students and others whom have strange desires. Talking about one’s desires in public whether they were supposed to only have Frum speakers, not openly Toeivaniks is still not Mutter because it’s Nivel Peh. Yea, they (Frum ones only) should be supported and that’s why we have Shrinks that specialize in this. You want to pay for therapy -that’s fine, but it’s pure Nivel Peh and therefore a Chillul Hashem to have a public forum! Also, publically criticizing the “Me Yehudi” law in Israel is against Halacha because either it’s legitimizing Conservative & Reform conversions or it’s giving that impression to e/o that they are legitimate groups of Judaism, even if you personally are against them. And anyone who knows Halacha knows that that is Not true!

Health:

First: Let us assume I have no proof whatsoever. Why should your unproven claim be believed more than mine?

Second: “Rabbi, Dr. Lander A’H, is the one whom instituted all policies in any Touro school. These are all acc. to Halacha.”

“What you think he [Dr. Lander] okayed it? Secondly, even if he did, does that mean he knew what he was going to speak on?

I said policies, not speeches.”

According to you his policy was to allow speeches about any topics?

I’m going to repeat again that what was discussed on the first page of this thread was not motzi shem ra.

“He did and thats “a fact, not an insult”!”

I know I asked you earlier in this post to substantiate this claim, but it’s coming up again so: How do you know this?

By the way, why did you refer to Rabbi Tendler as “Professor” Tendler? Also, it’s interesting that you think that one quote from somebody whose work is widely-available and can be found online indicates that somebody is a student in his university.

(I don’t mean to attack you, at least in this paragraph. I’m just wondering)If I quoted, say, Rabbi Belsky, would you assume I learned at Torah Vodaath? If I quoted Rav Elyashiv, would you assume I learned with him?

“”3. Why do you think I am bitter at Touro?”

Safe to say – because why else do you feel the need to keep putting them down?!?”

I think if you were to read the various things I’ve written in this thread, you’d see that I don’t keep putting Touro down. I get irked, at times, when people speak inaccurately and feel the need to correct misconceptions.

I’m not a halachist, so I might be wrong, but I don’t think that any of your examples of “sanctioned violations of Halacha” are actually violations of halacha. And, with regard to your third example, even if it is against halacha, blaming an institution for the misdeeds of one person seems remarkably unfair.

It does not change everything. You consistently bash YU, mainly utilizing its club for those with strange desires. Whether or not the Touro one was a result of liberal pressure, it still stands that it exists on a Touro College campus.

Shvartza Wolf -“First: Let us assume I have no proof whatsoever. Why should your unproven claim be believed more than mine?”

It shouldn’t – because it was my opinion, not an Affadavit. If you call s/o a liar -Oh excuse me – s/o who told a lie on a post -you have to prove it or you sound like an idiot.

“Second: “Rabbi, Dr. Lander A’H, is the one whom instituted all policies in any Touro school. These are all acc. to Halacha.”

“What you think he [Dr. Lander] okayed it? Secondly, even if he did, does that mean he knew what he was going to speak on?

I said policies, not speeches.”

“According to you his policy was to allow speeches about any topics?”

I’m sure not.

“I’m going to repeat again that what was discussed on the first page of this thread was not motzi shem ra.”

I’ll repeat it again -using the actions of few bad apples to put down a whole school is Motzay Shem Ra. Why don’t you ask one of your Rabbi/Drs. in YU? I’m sure at least one of them learnt Chofetz Chaim.

“He did and thats “a fact, not an insult”!”

“I know I asked you earlier in this post to substantiate this claim, but it’s coming up again so: How do you know this?”

Because I went to their school and all the people who work there said so.

“By the way, why did you refer to Rabbi Tendler as “Professor” Tendler?”

Why? I thought he was a professor of Biology in YU.

“Also, it’s interesting that you think that one quote from somebody whose work is widely-available and can be found online indicates that somebody is a student in his university.”

You see that’s another problem with you YU guys -you think the world surrounds you. I never knew that his “work is widely-available and can be found online”. Only a YU guy would know this.

“(I don’t mean to attack you, at least in this paragraph. I’m just wondering)If I quoted, say, Rabbi Belsky, would you assume I learned at Torah Vodaath? If I quoted Rav Elyashiv, would you assume I learned with him?”

No, but Professor Tendler is not that well known, at least not in the Yeshivishe circles.

“”3. Why do you think I am bitter at Touro?”

Safe to say – because why else do you feel the need to keep putting them down?!?”

“I think if you were to read the various things I’ve written in this thread, you’d see that I don’t keep putting Touro down. I get irked, at times, when people speak inaccurately and feel the need to correct misconceptions.”

And your doing an excellent job at that. It appears the more you post – the more your school YU looks bad.

“I’m not a halachist, so I might be wrong, but I don’t think that any of your examples of “sanctioned violations of Halacha” are actually violations of halacha.”

Ok, Nivel Peh, promoting the Toevah lifestyle – even B’shogeg, Chillul Hashem are not “actually violations of halacha”! Whatever you say -it’s fine by me!

“And, with regard to your third example, even if it is against halacha, blaming an institution for the misdeeds of one person seems remarkably unfair.”

Boo hoo, it’s “unfair”. Sorry, you as a student don’t represent the school, but the CEO/President unfortunately does and that’s what he said. Deal with it!

Ner yisroel with Hopkins or U.of M 50percent more learning per day……Double the learning per week. Almost double the weeks per year. More than double the days per year. YU has 2 14 week semesters including study week. That is 24-26 weeks of learning 5 days a week. Ner isroel has 44 weeks of learning a year 7 days a week. Thats about 300 days for NY vs about 130 for YU. Shabbos in Ner Yisroel is Shabbos. The choice is clear if you want to be a Ben Torah.

yid.period -“…. and to think, I never knew “liberal pressure” was justification for compromising halacha and Torah standards!

If anything I would say YU condemning the event that unintentionally was perceived as supporting toeivah and instituting new policies to ensure events like that would not happen again, is much more within normative halacha and daas Torah than reinstating an official group/ club explicitly supporting toevah (alliance… etc), even if it was because of political pressure. (I’m not intending to knock Touro, only point out how this whole discussion is perpetuated by silly comments and double standards)”

Of course you are trying to knock Touro, because R. Dr. Lander came from YU and did what YU has been trying to do for a hunderd years -namely have a Jewish institution that you can get a college degree with. The only difference is Touro follows Halacha!

Do all you YU guys think you are Poiskim? If you read what I posted -you would have seen some of these “libs” were gov. agencies. They wouldn’t have let it go. So maybe Touro decided or they asked a Shaila before they did what they did. The Shaila probably was either close down the whole TU or give into these bodies demanding funding for the Toevaniks. I guess the answer was they weren’t Mechyav to lose millions of dollars just so they wouldn’t have to support some Toevaniks as long as the world knows (which they do -not like YU – were they think YU is Pro -Toevaniks) this was basically against their will. This would be called an Oiness acc. to the Torah.

As far as YU -Yes – you can do Teshuva on the massive Chillul Hashem and Pritzus & Nivel Peh B’rabim (in public) that their Toeva Forum caused. But Is it a real Teshuva? They planned this themselves from the begining – there was no pressure from any gov. or any other group to do it -it was all their own idea. And after they got negative press from the world of people who are anti-Toeva – they retracted. So if they did it for this reason -that they had gotten bad PR because of it, instead of because it was the wrong thing to do -this isn’t called Teshuva.

I’m not just saying this to knock YU, (like you say about Touro), but a pattern emerges -they do things wrong and then they say – Sorry -Chotosy, we didn’t mean it. Like with the Beacon articles. So if they keep doing things wrong and everytime the Frum world explodes about it and only then do they regret it -this smells (Shmect) of a Not proper Teshuva and a lack of Yiras Shomayim!