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Where should I go? What are the benefits/disadvantages with both?
You should go to the new one, it has exactly what you are looking for. It is called ?????.
Rav Shach was against both (in Isreal at least)
First off, YU is a yeshiva and Touro is just a college there is no learning except for the landers yeshiva. If your asking the difference between Landers and YU they have different haskafas. Academically I would assume that YU has a higher standing.
YU doesn’t really have a hashkafah. Supposedly it’s “Torah UMadda” but almost every Rosh Yeshiva defines it differently. Also, the Y and the U don’t really have much to do with each other, other than the fact that they are on the same campus. Basically, YU is a place of high level learning with Roshei Yeshiva who are outstanding talmidei chachamim. You don’t have to waste time traveling to class, and your classes will be all male.
Why not both? Either way it’s better than having no degree and having a much better chance of being unemployed.
touro. YU is for girls.
YU. It’s more of a real degree, and the placement is better.
And, you get to sleep until 3:00 pm 🙂
To start, if you aren’t a great student then I think the decent/high average from Touro will do more for you than a poor average from YU.
In terms of the “Yeshiva” aspect of YU, although it has been improving it is still largely a colder “do it yourself” environment – which when combined with the rigorous schedule and coursework often takes a toll on the students. One Rosh Yeshiva explained it as “it is a beis medresh, not a yeshiva.” But as a Beis Medresh, it is a great makom Torah – the Roshei Yeshiva are huge and there is A LOT of serious talmud Torah and very serious messirus nefesh for Torah happening.
Academically – very challenging with many “jewish studies” requirements you wouldn’t have elsewhere (like hebrew, Jewish history, and bible). I would even venture to say the school takes these classes more seriously than most others. Ideally, these classes can teach you a great deal of necessary information and improve your understanding and appreciation of Torah; HOWEVER, all too frequently, I believe, they miss the boat and do the opposite.
Yeshiva College (and Stern) have higher academic standards and higher tuition, and are designed to integrate Torah with their academics. Touro is primarily a way for frum kids to get a degree without too many problems, with lower standards and tuition. It also depends on what one plans to major in, and whether one wants a profession that requires a graduate degree, or a certain level of accreditation.
Public universities are cheaper but there are more problems especially if you don’t like associating with goyim. It shoulde be noted that public and private universities tend to be liberal with financial aid for large families. Another option is online (there are several places with full accreditation).
Touro is just as good as YU academically, so long as you research which professors to take classes with.
YU has more apikorsus floating around. Touro is more yeshivish while YU is more MO. However you will find both kinds in both places.
Touro is thousands of dollars cheaper, but YU can give you slightly more of a starting point (in YU – owned businesses, so this only applies to finance.)
Most YU students dorm, while most Touro students live at home.
YU has professors with tenure teaching, while Touro uses a lot of adjuncts.
YU and Lander colleges for men and women of Touro both require taking many Judaic studies courses. Touro’s tend to be lighter in terms of content.
YU is only in Wash Heights whereas there are many locations for both men and women to attend Touro.
YU gives fewer and more limited scholarships than does Touro.
YU is set in its ways and can be inflexible for individual student needs while people in Touro can’t always give proper guidance as the rules are always changing.
I think that covers it.
PB -“Touro is more yeshivish while YU is more MO. However you will find both kinds in both places.”
To expand on this – Touro was started for Parnassa -for mostly men who have decided to leave the Yeshiva -where they were doing full time learning (they might even still be in Yeshiva) and get a Parnassa through some sort of degree. It isn’t in place of a Yeshiva, just a lot of advantages for Yeshiva guys trying to get degrees. YU has a totally diferent philosophy than most of the Frum world. They believe that in order to be a complete Jew you need certain secular studies -I believe this is what they mean when they say Torah Ummada.
If you are looking for a Yeshiva -like you aren’t capable of learning on your own and you aren’t in one that allows college -I don’t recommend either. Touro is for guys who are Bnai Torah and learning already -either in Yeshiva or like a Baal Haboss. YU is for people whom already have that type of Hashkofa. If you need a Yeshiva to learn in -I’d recommend NIRC (Ner Israel) in Balto. MD.
They are on par of most other Yeshivos and they allow college after a certain time period of being there!
Health-
Sorry, but I think you have misinterpreted YU.
1) As another poster mentioned above, other than the slogan “Torah Umadda” nothing unifies YU. If you ask each of the Roshei Yeshiva what that slogan means, you will get a different answer from each one of them. Therefore, it is inaccurate to say “YU has a totally different philosophy… They”. There is no “they.”
2) To explain the philosophy I think you were trying to portray as “YU’s”, I think you missed a few important details and nuances. It is not that one needs certain secular studies to be a “complete jew” but rather that certain “secular studies” until relatively recently in history have been one and the same as Torah itself. Therefore they are considered worthwhile studies to ENHANCE one’s avodas Hashem etc. Not “to replace” Torah study.
It is also important to note that there is also a great tolerance of different derachim in YU, so this notion of a uniform “complete jew”, at least from my experiences, is something I don’t think many would subscribe to from there.
“called ?????.”
If you do not learn how to earn money in a Kosher manner, you are headed for a steep cliff both materially and spiritually.
yid.period -“Health-
Sorry, but I think you have misinterpreted YU.”
Look what I posted was based on a former poster named Charlie Hall who said that even their students who are seeking to become Rabbonim are encouraged to learn secular studies. Whether my choice of the word “complete” might not be totally accurate -my description is. Even if not every Rebbe there agrees with this philosophy -there are some who push it. This philosophy is different than most other Yeshivos. This is why I don’t recommend it for people who weren’t born into a family with this philosophy!
Both. PBA and Josh31; You misspelled the word. It is spelled thusly.????? . But Poppa Bar Abba cracked me up with his always pointed retorts, coming from “Left Field”. (A term used in baseball, ?”?.)
Let me emphasize that going to Touro is NOT a less respected degree. My experience in applying to schools on the doctoral level has been that I am not at a disadvantage.
HOWEVER, Touro is very much what you make of it. If you are self-motivated, you can receive an excellent education and a great deal of personal attention. Do your research, find out who is in your field, and whose politics you agree with. For some reason, my equally motivated friends in Stern did not easily develop close relationships to the professors they admired. In Touro, it may be easier to stand out and this is important if you intend to go to graduate school and rise in your field.
For a yeshivish / chasidish person I would recommend Touro, because it is thousands of dollars cheaper and you can receive a comparable education. The degree is just as good as YU’s and in some areas better. Socially you will find easily find friends who equally want to avoid the morally repugnant aspects of college life.
For a more modern person or someone who wants to be a little less frum and can afford it, I would recommend YU as you will be less comfortable in Touro. Touro students are from poorer, frummer families, overall.
Again, you will find all types in both colleges. However, they are currently equally good degrees and you should do what is best for you.
DO NOT GO TO TOURO!! I REPEAT DO NOT GO THERE!! IF YOU WANT A JOB OUT OF COLLEGE, GO TO YU!! I Have a lot of friends who went to Touro and can’t find work!! Unless you can work for your parents or you have good connections, do not go to touro!!!
On an additional note, both are accommodating to religious Jews for Yom Tovim. There are no classes on Chol Hamoed or any other days of Yom Tov.
KFB: Once we’re using anecdotal evidence: all my Touro friends who worked hard, did internships, and were realistic in terms of career, are reasonably satisfied with their jobs. (Except me, but that’s due to life choices which will delay my job seeking for a while to get more education.)
If you major in psychology, are going for speech, and don’t instantly get a high-paying job, that has to do with your mazal.
Touro has been around since 1972. YU connections are useful for YU-owned businesses, and Touro connections are useful for businesses run by Touro graduates.
In the real world, where you got the degree just doesn’t matter. People care about your experience, intelligence, knowledge, flexibility, confidence, and reliability; even going to Harvard isn’t going to make up for a lack in those areas.
PS A pet peeve of mine is when people blame an institution for the results of their life choices. If you did your best, that’s what Hashem wants, He doesn’t care where you got your degree either.
Optimus prime: that is a very good argument for going to a frum college, whether YU, Touro, IDT, or Maalot.
kfb, I’m not sure what your statistical sample is, but from a quick survey of my own “network”, the recent Touro grads in my network did get jobs in businesses large and small, depending on the individual. I don’t think it’s true that you have to go to YU if you want to get a job; that sounds a little absurd.
Not having been a student in both of the institutions under discussion, let me just point out that I believe that the assertions that Touro is as good academically as YU and that their degrees are equally respected are false. I don’t have proof. But I believe that YU is considered to be, and is, a stronger academic institution.
optimus prime and pascha bchochma, ya its a strong point to say they are accommodating to jews, i have 2 things to say
1, B”H (bli ayin hara) my nursing school has actually a) made its schedule to accommodate frum people and b) will give additional test days if it does not work to change it for the entire class. (granted we make up about 20% of the school so its worth it). friends in other colleges have told me they go the prof and most of the time they will do make up days or ways to make up lost lectures
2, i know s/o in touro and told me they have to accommodate both jewish and secular holidays. that’s lots of lost days. granted this is in the nursing program. not sure how many goyim are in the regular touro but in the nursing program there are quite a few.
Yenta -“1, B”H (bli ayin hara) my nursing school has actually a) made its schedule to accommodate frum people and b) will give additional test days if it does not work to change it for the entire class.”
Fact is – the law requires accommodation.
“friends in other colleges have told me they go the prof and most of the time they will do make up days or ways to make up lost lectures”
The first part isn’t required by law -so they are very lucky. The second part is -they must provide all materials to all students on anything that they will be tested on, if the student had an excusable absence. Religion is a legitimate excuse.
kfb -“DO NOT GO TO TOURO!! I REPEAT DO NOT GO THERE!! IF YOU WANT A JOB OUT OF COLLEGE, GO TO YU!!”
So I guess YU is different that any other college/university in America -they have 100% placement rate. Wow!
And I guess Touro is also different -they have a 0% placement rate.
If the student is a loser, he/she won’t find a job no matter what school they went to!
Shvartza Wolf –
Uh -huh. In every single major – YU is sooo much better than Touro. Dream on. You sound like some guy who never stepped foot out of Yeshiva and knows all about everything. Or it could be the other way around -you only went to Universities and don’t know anything going on in the Frum community.
Pashcha; YU is a much better school academically! My friends at Touro were never told to go get an internship because if you didn’t you wouldn’t find a job after school. Have you been to a touro career fair?? It’s a joke! My friends have tried to apply to jobs on company websites, and when they ask what school your from, Touro isn’t even on the drop down lists of schools, you have to write it in other. There’s no comparison between the two!
kfb -Politically connected and academics aren’t the same. Most people don’t get jobs nowadays from fairs or websites -they get them from networking. While there are some professions that a way in the door is through internships, most aren’t like that.
Health: Thanks for making inferences from my comments which were neither stated nor implied.
I didn’t say that YU’s better in every single major, and I didn’t say that it’s “sooo much better than Touro”.
And for whatever it’s worth, you’re wrong on both guesses.
Listen, Abella asked where they should go.. My opinion is if you want a good education and have a career after college then go to YU. That’s my opinion.. I had rebbeim in Israel who were very against YU and told me it was kefirah.. But end of the day I had to make my own decision.. I never even heard of Touro until I went to Israel for the year.
If you have to go to Touro, at least go to Lander College, which takes themselves more seriously than the one in Flatbush.
By the way, when I declared Health wrong on both counts, I was referring to his guesses about me, not about the schools.
shvartza wolf: I’m assuming your not obama’s cousin.. am I wrong too???lol:) cheer up and don’t get to heated by silly comment from other people..
whoops I meant postrs not people..lol:)
and don’t let other people’s foolish assumtions, allow them to force you to divulge ANY personal info about yourself!!
KFB – I’m in an extremely competitive field and have not had any problems due to my Touro degree; even Harvard has Touro listed!
It’s just that most frum people don’t know anything about colleges – many Ivy League professors, for example, (including several I am acquainted with) send their kids to the College of William and Mary for a quality education – a college which you’ve probably never heard of.
YU is no better than Touro, in the larger world, both are not well known and diverse experiences, high GPAs and GREs will get you anywhere regardless of where they came from.
Shvartza Wolf -“I didn’t say that YU’s better in every single major, and I didn’t say that it’s “sooo much better than Touro”.”
That’s right you didn’t -I exaggerated your comments. Ya know why?
They say the definition of Hypothesis is an educated guess. Most people post their opinions here and have sort of reason to post their beliefs -logic, experience. You openly admit you have No experience in either school and no logical reason to post what you did, but that didn’t stop you from denigrating Touro with your Uneducated guesses. Perhaps you even heard what you posted from others -Ya know Rumors. Did you ever hear of Motzay Shem Ra?
Touro is very well known… as a place that got caught selling degrees. It is ranked the 94th best regional university in the north by u.s.news (the most respected rankings). YU is the 45th best NATIONAL university.(not that I’m saying to go to YU but the contention that Touro is in any way respected anywhere is ludicrous.) An undergrad degree from anywhere is not worth that much these days; your desired profession (if you have one) should be your goal, anything else should be a means not an end in itself.
frumnotyeshivish -“Touro is very well known… as a place that got caught selling degrees.”
Sorry -you have a different version of Frum than I do -so just call yourself – Not Frum or Yeshivish! I’m no Chossid of Touro, but to besmirch a whole institution because a few years ago – a few unscrupulous individuals did something – might be OK in the Goyishe or in the Non-Yeshivish world, but it is a Big Issur from the Torah to do this!
“Touro is in any way respected anywhere is ludicrous.) An undergrad degree from anywhere is not worth that much these days; your desired profession (if you have one) should be your goal, anything else should be a means not an end in itself”
The reason that Frum people go to Touro is not because they are looking for a degree from an Ivy league school. If they were – they wouldn’t go to YU either. Most Jews are smart enough to get into Ivy league schools. Touro with their schedule and hours in some schools are very much accommodating to the Frum lifestyle.
They also provide useful degrees in a lot of areas that you can start working in with a BA or a BS. This is why their School of Health Sciences is very popular.
Health: I didn’t say that I have no experience with either school – I said “Not having been a student in both.” I meant that I have not attended both institutions, not that I have not attended either one of them. Regardless, considereing discussions I’ve had with people in both institutions, my opinions are something more than “uneducated guesses.”
By the way, I didn’t denigrate Touro. I merely said that, to my understanding, YU is a stronger academic institution. If I say that the GRA was a greater Talmid Chochom (to my understanding) than R. Chaim Volozhin, is that denigration?
If I may, why do you love Touro so much?
Shvartza Wolf -“Not having been a student in both of the institutions under discussion, let me just point out that I believe that the assertions that Touro is as good academically as YU are false. I don’t have proof.” “By the way, I didn’t denigrate Touro.”
Saying that Touro is not as good academically as YU without any proof is Denigration. I’d never say that Touro is better than YU because Ya know why? I don’t have any proof!
“If I may, why do you love Touro so much?”
I actually don’t, but I can’t stand Motzay Shem Ra! If s/o who is knowledgeable (eg. former student or current one) wrote something negative about them which was true and for a Toielless – I wouldn’t have a problem with it!
I didn’t say Touro was responsible – I said they’re famous for the scandal. That lowers the respect for a Touro degree in the world. Calling someone not frum for stating a fact that is not in any way Lashon Hora, even if it unpleasant for you to hear it, is silly. Furthermore, any undergraduate degree is significantly less valuable than it used to be. That was my point. If the career you choose happens to assign a disproportionate value (relative to other careers) to an undergraduate degree – good for you.
Saying that Touro is not as good academically as YU without any proof is Denigration.
You are correct, and schvartze wolf had no proof.
I have proof. The US News and World Report ranks Yeshiva College as number 45. Touro is nowhere close (I dont know ranking)
frumnotyeshivish -“I didn’t say Touro was responsible – I said they’re famous for the scandal. That lowers the respect for a Touro degree in the world. Calling someone not frum for stating a fact that is not in any way Lashon Hora, even if it unpleasant for you to hear it, is silly.”
Who said it’s not LH? You just admitted that it lowers the respect for the school. From learning CC, it most certainly is. Actually it’s Motzay Shem Ra, because the administration never condoned these people’s behavior. So by posting (repeating) it here -you are being Motzay Shem Ra. I’ll translate -your giving them a bad name and for No reason!
Health: At the risk of arguing with Popa, I’d like to suggest that it is actually impossible to prove which school is better. (Certainly, US News didn’t do it.)
Somebody asked which school to go to. I replied with some relevant comments which I believe to be true. (Perhaps due to my apparently lacking command of Jewish law,) I don’t understand how that is motzi shem ra. Maybe you can explain it.
At the risk of arguing with Popa, I’d like to suggest that it is actually impossible to prove which school is better. (Certainly, US News didn’t do it.)
Well, I agree that US New’s criteria don’t necessarily mean a better education.
But, if we value education by the jobs you can get out of it, and we assume employers care about the US News ranking (which they generally do- at least in certain fields) then we can say that it does prove it is a more valuable education.
I went to touro undergrad- extremely unhelpful to students. they arent hard academically if you have a brain but their class and requirements make no sense and there is noone to speak to that will help you with things unless you have connections. The professors are pathetic besides for 1 or 2 they have no idea how to explain. and be especially aware of the computers department.
the job placements- ha!a joke! they cant even get you internship forget about a job. They are $hungry everytime i needed something i had to pay 30 dollars and they always forgot that i payed- it was never in their system,
but besides for that it was great to have college next to home!!
If you’re in yeshiva and that’s what you plan on doing the rest of your life and your parents insist you go to college, then go to touro. That’s why a lot of people go there, because their parents want them to go to college. They don’t really care about a degree and neither do their rebbeim. But if you want a good education and have a job after college, then I’d say go to YU.
Health- It’s not Motzei sheim ra, we’re trying to help people who think touro and YU are equal in their level of academics and recognition in the real world.
kfb -“Health- It’s not Motzei sheim ra, we’re trying to help people who think touro and YU are equal in their level of academics and recognition in the real world.”
Trying to twist out of what you did wrong, huh?
I was talking about you mentioning their scandal and you know it!
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