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I’ve seen, in the (many) shidduch threads, many references to “top boys/bochrim” … whether it was discussing their “lists” or snobbiness or whatever; it isn’t my point.
What I would like to know is what qualifies someone as a “top boy” in your opinion… the one who could have his choice of shidduch and everything else.
Thanks.
My next door neighbor gives the bochor a farher before his daughter can go out with him.
In my opinion, the qualities that define a “top boy” are the same that define a “top girl”: Knows how to responsible, is caring, sensitive to other people’s needs, giving, tries to always look at the good, and has a strong, positive connection to Judaism.
“Top” will vary depending on what you are looking for.
yid.period – I’m not sure what your talking about, can you please elaborate more.
a boy with middos! wealthy or not, good looking or not a top boy is a boy that is a mentch. and a ben torah with his head and priorities straight.
AGREED!!
1. Middos
2. Middos
3. Middos
Idk if this rly has to do w/ this but in general with shidduchim but its funny to see how when on paper and discussion e/1 agrees on the right priorities but when it comes to their own spouses or children, its another story. Easy to say about others but still, its uneasy to do. BUT, that is why this system is corrupt. Don’t just say it, act on it! But somehow every MIL seems to think she’s got to have the perfect DIL and FIL thinx he needs top SIL and really its all shallow. There can be boys who are “top” boys and wealthy and good learner but when it comes to real life they aren’t the greatest husbands (not necessarily bad) In general, I feel like these “top” statements are overrated and it means nothing. Just IMHO.
Sorry to go a little off course here, but should a father really give his daughter’s date a farher? I don’t think there’s anything to gain by it. He is not trying to get into your Yeshiva. Even if he is the biggest masmid, he will probably be nervous anyway. Instead, make him comfortable with some small talk.
yid.period – So that is what I answerd you earlier. I just didn’t understand the previous post about fahers.
TWEET TWEET
If yow eere asked to invest 10,000 or more for 5 years in a product, wouldn’t you want to know if the product is all that it is supposed to be??
A bechina is not common.. mostly because the bachrim refuse……. but there should not be any philosophical rejection of the idea.
An advantage is that one get to see the involvement and simcha- if it exists- when Torah is discussed.
In my book, a “Top Boy” is one who has a decent knowledge of “Shas” and at the same time is a “Mentch”
I think that what people refer to as a top boy is one who: learns well and learns often; is a ben torah in and out of the bais medrash; has good middos; comes from a good family; has the right balance of personality (really serious about life, but also knows how to have a good time, etc); is probably going to stay in long term learning….
this is not necessarily a list that I would consider “top”, but what I think people refer to when they use that term.
personally, i hate the word “top” in reference to good boys who will be in learning for a while. as many others said here, middos are the most important thing when looking for a spouse. in my very humble opinion, it is not good middos to feel entitled to and demand from the girls side financial support–and expect to get it!!–just because someone is “top” in his learning. the sense of entitlement that sometimes accompanies guys who think that just because they are in yeshiva and know how to learn gives them the right to place all kinds of demands on the girls….that is not good middos and takes them off the “top” pedestal real fast IMO.
also, it is never a good idea to use a term like “top” or “best” because it takes away an important point: when looking for a spouse, one is looking for someone who will be best for THEM. not someone who is “top” by universal standards. this is a really big problem because we have people searching for illusions, and they think they sometimes get the “best/top/” out there, but whatever that is is totally wrong for them.
y.p.,
Went to the “right” yeshivos, a masmid, a lamdan, self confident, good midos, from a chashuva mishpacha. Pretty much in that order.
Very simple. Be a mentch. Be a mentch. Be a mentch!!!
1: Middos
2: (related) Someone who knows how to treat a Lady (I know, I’m old-fashioned)
3: Someone who looks like he can be an active parent, and wants to be an active parent.
4: Someone who is committed to being a Yarei Hashem.
5: Someone whos plan is not “take Tzedaka/government funds/ Shver” for the reat of his life.
6: Someone who has a plan on how to pay full tuition. Ezehu Chacham HaRoeah Es HaNolad.
I like MiddlePath’s response; I am not as eloquent.
Gavra at work, your post was finely worded, and its content was even better. I am relieved that someone here takes my view of what is really important. I was beginning to suspect that I am crazy.
RABBAIM
I agree with you that at some point, it’s alright to discuss Torah. But it doesn’t have to be done with a farher, like in question and answer form. Let the boy know before hand that you would like him to say a nice d’var torah. This will make the situation more comfortable, and you could probably tell if it brings him simcha or not.
i want one!!!!!!!!!!!
someone who is a ‘top boy’ is a person who is a great learner (though not alone, it has to come with…) middos, all around likeable, happy, nice looking, and as a bonus- parents have money. It sounds shallow, but if the boy is a wonderful masmid and had great middos PLUS the extras of money and looks, wouldnt u want your daughter for him?
A man with all three traits of the Avos: Chesed, Gevura, and Emes- he’s really on TOP!
I am by no means a top bochur but I got a farher before a date once. Actually was quite fun. It was my first time going out so I thought it was protocol. She didn’t want to go out again so when I saw her father in shul the next week he said to me: well, at least you got to chazzer shiur.
its really astounding how inefficient the shidduch market is
A top boy is one whose internal middos and external behavior match. He learns Torah because he loves learning, and is not just bench warming at the Beis Medrash. If he is REALLY top, he is also making a real plan for the future that recognizes the need to take care of his own business and not be dependent on others for that. That’s my opinion, even if it conflicts with others’ views.
Yid,period, you’re absolutely correct. I regard them highly.
money
football players, looks and $$$
I LIKE HUYDE LaHASHEM::someone who is a ‘top boy’ is a person who is a great learner (though not alone, it has to come with…) middos, all around likeable, happy, nice looking, and as a bonus- parents have money. It sounds shallow, but if the boy is a wonderful masmid and had great middos PLUS the extras of money and looks, wouldnt u want your daughter for him?
HOW CAN ANYONE ARGUE UNLESS HE HAS A CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER ??? THERE ARE MANY NICE GUYS WHO ARE DECENT LEARNERS ETC BUT NOT EVERYONE GETS TO PLAY IN THE ALL STAR GAME.. BUT THAT’S LIFE !!
this is not a valid thread! of course everyone will have a different answer! yes being a mentch will be across the board, but a boy who doesn’t learn all day (altho yes ultimately i do want a learner/earner) does not mean he is not a top guy! same way someone who does learn all day, and never missed a seder… doesn’t mean he is a top boy. and it also depends on where you are coming from and what you are looking for.
i can only say that i think many people dont even know themselves what they want. i think they just hear what everybody else says, and they automatically want that. people dont realize that they have to really know themselves before they can start dating.
middle- I brought this thread up for you to show you that there is really no such a thing as a top boy…. its not a one-fits-all type of thing. Its more like a puzzle- everyone has their bashert and you dont want anyone else’s
my top boy? none. i dont swing that way.
Thanks, adorable. I appreciate you saying that, because we just got through talking about how I know I’m not a “top boy”, and that I wouldn’t want to put someone through all my issues. But I do think you are a top girl, based on the criteria in my first post on this thread.
1- Money
2- Money
3- Money
4- football jock
5- Masmid, never leaves beis medrash
6- Good looking
7- Not into chitzoniyus
8- Has good career prospects
9- No college chalila
10- Is shpitz yeshivish
11- Has good middos.
For some help with something, I once had to call someone considered a ‘top’ boy who had a Yeshivish CV like no other, married a ‘top’ girl; in short that shidduch had money, looks, lamdonus, yichus – a marriage made in Yeshivish heaven.
Not quite up to par with that type of crowd, up there with the Yeshiva elite, the response I got; no the mere attention afforded to me was that like a piece of chewing gum stuck on someone’s shoe can expect.
Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Levi said after coming back from a visit to Heaven.
“I saw an upside-down world. The ones on top were at the bottom and the ones at the bottom were at the top.”
Well I dont have the money part but if the other things count (yes I know they do!) then I will take credit
Actually was quite fun.
I like your attitude, 123. You are clearly a “top” bochur.
But sad to say, the brand “top” is solely dependent on your media corps. (ei, parent, shadchan, ect).
You could look like Frodo, and have the personality of a cabbage, but from the spin, you’d sound like a star.
Not to worry, though. In the end, we all get married and each spouse makes a star out of their catch.
Even us B+ types
And Adore – in regards to a post in the NY/LA Bus thread, I now know that Middle is also not on your bus. (but might be on mine!)
If everyone is a Top Boy, no one is.
COMMUNISM!!!
why are the boys running after the topp girls like the girls are running after the boys?
Excuse me?
Not to say that you DO look like frodo, but if you did, the right spin doctor could make you out to be Morgan Fairchild.
(As for the cabbage, I do like cole slaw and egg rolls, so maybe we could work something out!)
A Top Boy is one with Yiras Shomayim and is a Talmid Chochom!
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