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If any of you have owned a basic 2-serving George Foreman (Non-removable plates, and a single red warming-up light), how did you manage to toivel it without letting the area where the cord is attached get wet?
I toiveled the entire thing, including the cord. Then I let it dry out for a few days before using it.
Unless it’s a complicated electric device like a Keurig or a Sous Vide, you’re safe toiveling the whole thing as long as you keep it dry for a few days before you use it.
I agree with Goldilocks and Yserbius, and want to add that tevilah doesn’t work unless you toivel the whole thing, including the cord, at one time.
same as Goldilocks
Ive toiveled several George Forman grills sandwich makers , hot water urns, the pizza maker from betty crocker over the years. LEt them sit for week before using and havent had any problems.
Never anything electronic with a display screen like Keurigs
I would have answered what your Rav said
Rav Belsky zatza”l reportedly held that a Keurig does not require tevila.
My Rav told me that although there are those who allow tevila without the cord, “it’s not Kedai to rely on that [opinion].”
Be careful. Foreman may be 71 but he is still Big George and he might not take kindly to being tovelled. BTW, there are opinions that something that is only used when plugged in is considered attached to the ground and does not need tevilla.
Idk if that’s entirely true 29
But thanks for the compliment
Don’t know if you noticed but that was a private message
Rav Belsky zatza”l reportedly held that a Keurig does not require tevila.
Rav Dovid Feinstein zt”l held it does, so the only eitzah is to have it owned by a guy.
BTW, there are opinions that something that is only used when plugged in is considered attached to the ground and does not need tevilla.
Minority opinion. R’ Moshe zt”l didn’t hold of that.
“Don’t know if you noticed but that was a private message“
I did 😉
is that how posters edit their comments?
Like
“This reply was modified 1 day, 6 hours ago by YW Moderator-💯.
This reply was modified 4 hours, 34 minutes ago by YW Moderator-💯.“ except sometimes it says it was edited by the poster?When an edit is done, it will list the mod who approved the post first, and then list the one who did the edit.
To avoid confusion, Reb Foreman recommends that the grill NOT be plugged in while being toiveled.
to have the humriest grill that all YWNers would be able to emjoy –
cut the cord and scratch the paint off before toivelingFrom a safety standpoint, the cord is probably the area of least concern. It’s covered with several layers of insulation, and the metal prongs will dry fairly quickly.
Just tovel the whole thing and let it dry. Use a hair dryer to speed up the process.
If I understand correctly, the bold letters/words/sentences etc., are written by the moderator (as a reply to the poster?), NOT by the poster. Is it even possible for a poster to edit their own post?
The best solution I can recommend is to watch a youtube video where they disassemble it, to a point where most ppl wouldn’t know how to put it back together, and then reassemble it. Even though the poskim say to bring it to an uman, that’s just so the average person wouldn’t be able to do that.
Yafter doing this you are halachically making the keli and no longer require tevilah. (This is a better solution than what @daasyochid suggests because by giving it to a goy many poskim still hold that you require tevilah if it will stay in a jew’s reshus long-term)
HatzlachaBeisyosef,
Why is that solution better than toveling it and letting it dry?
If someone is concerned about the danger aspect, I think your solution is more dangerous.
as a general solution: how about reading instructions or inquiring with the manufacturer – do they allow putting the object in the water? would this void the warranty?
you may feel that this looks safe, but manufacturer will know better. Look at recurring incidents with shabbos fires – people can underestimate the risks.
The manufacturer always says not to immerse. So according to most poskim, either don’t buy a George Foreman (or urn, etc.) or immerse and let it dry out, as many have done successfully with no issues despite what the manufacturer says.
Meno
I think he was replying regarding a keurig, which is waht DY was reffering too
This is a better solution than what @daasyochid suggests because by giving it to a goy many poskim still hold that you require tevilah if it will stay in a jew’s reshus long-term
You are correct that halachically it’s better to disassemble and reassemble, but most people can’t/aren’t going to do that even with a YT video.
If it were really that easy, I wonder if it would even be considered a ma’aseh uman.
Perhaps some startup company in EY will begin manufacturing a basic line of small appliances that have been made “water resistant” and “toivel friendly”. I’m not sure if the higher costs for “sealing” such items like sandwich grills, toasters coffee makers, blenders, etc. makes it even remotely economically feasible since the large percentage of frum families are not the type that are going to purchase the really high-end, very expensive version of these appliances.
GH, what some companies actually do is have the parts owned by a Jew when they are assembled, so that they don’t require tevila to begin with. These products will be marked as such, with a hechsher.
Not all poskim are happy with every company’s contractual arrangement with the manufacturer, so just like the food products you buy, make sure your posek approves of the hechsher.
>> with no issues despite what the manufacturer says.
“famous last words”
Why do you disregard expert opinion to satisfy your inner desire to be mahmir?
Are Rabbis exempt from gramah damages as professionals? I presume here that he is a professional in psak but not in electrical engineering.
So, if a Rav suggest toiveling and then the device is damaged or there is a fire, is he liable?
If someone tells you to jump off the roof of the beis medrash with “real emunah” so that you can “fly” and you follow his musar and fall 3 floors and break every bone in your body, good luck in finding any plaintiff’s counsel who will take your case. If your local Rav/Posek tells you to use an electric appliance in direct contradiction of the manufacturer’s instructions and you burn down your house, unless you are of diminished mental capacity and your LRP was aware of your inability to comprehend what you were doing, I suspect you’d also have a hard time in court. Not sure what a beis din would do.
GH “jump off the roof” –
that I understand, but what about less obvious cases – “manufacturers just don’t want to deal with it”, “they don’t care”, or “trust me, I know what your child need to learn”.Always ask: Its different than a coat-check room at a Simcha hall posting a sign that they are “not responsible” if your $4,000 streimlach or wife’s mink coat is stolen in an effort to evade legal responsibility. In general, you don’t waive your rights to sue for obvious negligence. However, when someone knowingly engages in an action in direct contradiction to the manufacturer’s guidance, there is a much lesser case to be made for manufacturer liability since there are no reps that the grill would survive a bout with the mikvah.
I was discussing this thread with a friend yesterday evening who suggested that if you are going to insist on using the grill after toiveling, make sure you plug it in to an outlet (or on a circuit) with a ground fault interrupter. Its no guarantee but might lessen the risk of a short overheating and starting a fire or giving you a shock if there is residual moisture that hasn’t dried out. The modern building codes generally require such outlets on kitchen and bath counters near a sink or water source so it shouldn’t be difficult to find one.
Always
“manufacturers just don’t want to deal with it”, “they don’t care”, or “trust me, I know what your child need to learn”.”
I’m not sure who you are quoting. Nobody said that.
you do not have to use a George forman, you will live there is no chiyuv, mitzva or even chumra to buy one.
IF you do buy one, the question is how to deal with the tevila issue. Some allow one to rely on the fact that it is plugged in, most don’t. Some may rely on that if combiend with selling to a goy most don’t. You can try taking it apart as others have suggested (though I would bet this would void any warranty just as much as immersion would)
I have toveleed probably 20 or so electric appliances (urns, George formans, Sandwich makers, pannini press, Pizza maker) with no problems. does that gaurantee none of them will break? OF course not .
If you don’t want to risk it and feel the tevila is not worth it. That is 100% fine. NO ONE is telling you that youhave to get a George forman and risk anything. Don’t you aren’t missing out much
ubiq: you do not have to use a George forman
you have a good point. This is a jarring disconnect – we are considering a person who has a yetzer hara for George Forman that he can and yetzer hatov to risk both money and personal safety for a mitzva of tevilah.
We need to consider how do these two desires simultaneously coexist in the same neshomah.
L’tzad zechut: he is willing to buy the most expensive appliance (is it? Not a bokeh) to then risk to lose in toveling. Mamash hiddur mitzva. He also probably paid $300 for the esrog.
On the other hand, maybe he is just driven to excesses in everything.
” and yetzer hatov to risk both money and personal safety for a mitzva of tevilah”
The good news is the risk to both money and safety is negligible
ubiquitin @risk to both money and safety is negligible
could you give an estimate and a source?
“could you give an estimate and a source?”
Approximately 0% risk rounded to nearest whole number. source is years of practical experience both my own, and many friends and family
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