To add to the list of YU’s sins

Osuur to teach them sheva mitzvos benei noach? I don’t think so.

To add to Avira’s aveiros:
The article doesn’t say anywhere that they’re teaching them Torah. It says they’ll be learning Jewish history, biblical Hebrew (as opposed to modern-day Ivrit), and post-Biblical literature.
You see what you want to see, because you are blinded by your hatred of YU. Try looking with an unbiased view, and you may actually see the truth.
You reek of sinas chinam, and it disgusts me.

Do you think this is a continuation or an extension of the well known heter to teach women ? Or do you think it is a separate issur on the goy to learn Torah because of the cheftza of Torah. It would be hard to say its on the gavra because the goy does not listen . Anyway a lot of reyd here .

The Gemora Bava Basra 15B says ?אַטּוּ כּוּלְּהוּ נְבִיאֵי מִי לָא אִינַּבּוֹ לְאוּמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם about the thought that the Neviem in Tanach were not talking to non-Jews as well.

I’m no posek and not endorsing the idea of a masters program teaching Tanach to non-Jews from a Jewish perspective but the Gemora does seem to clearly indicate that non-Jews are encouraged to learn Tanach. Who is supposed to be teaching it to them?

Unless you can prove with solid maareh mokomos that YU is clearly doing an aveira just bug off.

In addition to the issue of teaching goyim Torah, there seems to be a greater underlying threat here.

Here’s some more from the article:
“The new program is a joint initiative of YU and the Philos Project, an organization that says it “seeks to promote positive Christian engagement in the Near East.” Philos is a partner of Passages — a Birthright-style program that brings young Christians on group tours of Israel…
The launch of the Christian students’ program is a sign of a growing bond between Orthodox Jews and religious Christians, who have increasingly found common cause on everything from conservative domestic politics to support for Israel.”

This is part of the general evangelical pro-Jewish/Israel craze that is happening. This is probably the greatest current threat to the Jewish people.

Jews haven’t died throughout history solely because they were born Jews. They died because they refused to accept Christianity, because we consider the death of our soul worse than the death of the body.

The evangelicals, with all their “Israel support” etc. have a sinister mission to grab more Jews than ever before, which is worse, in a way, than the mass murders of previous generations.

I personally know Jewish families who have pulled their children out of Hebrew School and placed them into church school, r”l, due to the influence of Jews for Jesus ym”sh.

We have so many taka takanos in place to distance us from the goyim, even limiting the bread we eat.

In an institution that calls itself a yeshiva, how can they make a program that encourages “interfaith dialogue” – a clear violation of לא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם!?

Hopefully, this terrible threat will be stopped in its tracks.

P.S. I have nothing against YU, as I know very little about it. I am reacting solely to the information given in this article.

>>Smerel, I gave clear mareh mekomos in my first post. Look them up. Goyim who learn Torah are chayav misah.

Depends on the aspect of Torah. The Gemora Bava Kama 38A says
מִנַּיִן שֶׁאֲפִילּוּ גּוֹי וְעוֹסֵק בַּתּוֹרָה שֶׁהוּא
כְּכֹהֵן גָּדוֹל תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה אֹתָם הָאָדָם וָחַי בָּהֶם
Based on that the Rishoniim distinguish on what he is learning

That is why it is a complicated sugya and without maarhe mokomos down to achronim in relation o this specie situation you are just hocking.

>>>Re, B”b 15b, it’s not saying that goyim should learn it, it’s saying that nevuah was said about them.

You are badly misquoting the Gemora. If the Gemoroa meant “about” it would say “al” or “Odos” If as you understand it to e saying that שִׁבְעָה נְבִיאִים נִתְנַבְּאוּ לְאוּמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם means that seven Neviem were sent about (but not for) non-Jews and that הָכָא – עִיקַּר נְבִיאוּתַיְיהוּ לְאוּמּוֹת
הָעוֹלָם means that Sefer Iyov was primally written about (but not for) non-Jews then you would have to say that people like Bilaam said his main nevuah about non-Jews (to who?) and that Sefer Iyov which does not discuss explicitly discuss non-Jews at all was primarily written about them. .

>>>Smerel, your way of reading the gemara would mean that the main purpose of sifrei tanach including iyov is written so that goyim should read it.

I’m in wonderful company. You misunderstand the Gemorah and you misunderstand me. I have no idea where you see what you are claiming I said that but to be clear. The Gemora asks as a question how anyone can think that the Neviem were not also written for non-Jews אַטּוּ כּוּלְּהוּ נְבִיאֵי מִי לָא אִינַּבּוֹ לְאוּמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם. The Gemora answers that Iyov is unique in that the entire sefer was (also) written in a manner that is for non-Jews עִיקַּר נְבִיאוּתַיְיהוּ לְאוּמּוֹת. You can possibly kvetch into the Gemora that it means that during their lifetimes their nevua was also (or primarily in the case of the other seven) for non-Jews but the written seforim of their nevuos were not meant for non-Jews bit there is is no way it can be understood as saying that Sefer Iyov is primarily ABOUT non-Jews like you do. Reread the gemora with Artscroll a few times if you still think I’m misquoting it.

>>>As for c’kohen gadol, avi quoted it and it’s not relevant, because it’s referring to a goy who keeps the 7 mitzvos.

Says who? Who made that a unanimous opinion? Is it all or nothing when it comes to the Shiva mitzvas? As an aside someone enrolled in this course is far more like to end up keeping the Shiva mitzvas than someone who isn’t.

I’m not posting further on this thread so you are welcome to have the last word.

smerel, yes, the sheva Mitzvos are all or nothing. If a goy keeps six but violates one, he is chayiv misa. In fact, he can’t be considered to keep the sheva mitzvos even if he happens to keep them unintentionally.

Lots of interesting opinions but underlying facts are still unclear.
Could someone find a syllabus for these classes at least? Fluffy articles about the program may just be writer’s opinions

Concerns about evangelical love are justified, and historically many Philo semites turned into anti when we didn’t play along, from Hadrian to Luther.. still it is way more comfortable to complain from your current position than from catholic Spain or from soviet Russia. We need to acknowledge the positives while staying vigilant.

While I heartedly disagree with many things YU does, and believe wholeheartedly that YU should be, not just Jewish, but a frum institution, requiring all students to be shomer shabbos, the issur you mentioned is misplaced. Halacha allows for non-Jews to learn Torah shebichsav. From the article, it seems that the classes are limited to teaching the background and model of Torah shebochsav without any mention of Halacha and Torah she’bal pe.

Hire a goyish professor to teach the course; problem solved.

Avirah,

Who says they’re doing it for the wrong reasons? If they are going to a Jewish school to learn about Judaism, it seems that they are doing it for the right reasons.

Personally, I think it’s very silly, what they’re doing. But I don’t see an issue with it halachicly.

@aviradea, Lol. Lifnei iver? YU is to yeshivas as Hebrew National is to Kashrus; labeling itself kosher doesn’t make it kosher or representative of actual Kashrus standards, and YU calling itself a yeshiva doesn’t make it a yeshiva. I mean like seriously, you have a place that openly allows toiva clubs and your nitpicking about them asking a posik (LOL again) about lifnei iver in having a goy teach a Torah class

and human flesh isn’t treyf or nevelah either but its still not kosher 🙂

Of course, rankings are not the full story bur they are indicative of something … touro Grad school is
140 In ot, 120 pt, 230 speech
Yu 62 in social work, 69 law 194 psychology
Undergrad 67 overall

Again, this is not to say that touro/landers are right for some, but schools are in different leagues