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And how do you know that they have a Tzelem Elokim? It’s not even a definite fact that every Yid has one. Yes, it’s true that they are Hashem’s Maase Yadayim, but don’t stretch it.
Why do you feel that you have to find an excuse to behave appropriately? What’s wrong with the simple requirement of any human being to act like one?! The same reason you expect any non Jewish person not to spit you in the face or to cover his mouth when he sneezes or even not to steal, is the reason why you behave accordingly. The reason I stop by a red light is the same reason the guy on the opposite side does, not because of Dina Demalchusa – which doesn’t really apply here anyhow. That is what Reb Shlomo Zalman and the Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva were saying.
Popa, as I said, there are inherent ma’alos in being a member of Klal Yisroel. But, it is possible to find a Yid who is a ba’al middos raos, a bli’ya’al, a big rasha, and a Goy who is a good human being. And, yes, it is true: a Yid’s actions affect upper worlds, and a Goy’s do not.
Yes, Homeowner, that Yid is far higher than the lowly Theresa.
If you say so, but I know who’d I rather have living next door to me (hint: it’s not the child molestor).
The Wolf
HOmeowner
yes, a Jewish child molester is higher than Mother Theresa. The Jew might have to go deep deep into gehenom bu that is between him and Hashem. Between him and us we have to try to be makarev a jew that has fallen so far and try to help him do teshuvah the same like any other jew. Even if he spends 70000 years in the 7th level of gehenom at the end he will get his Olam HaBah and it will be far above anything mother Theresa will see.
Everybody has areas in their Middos that they find more difficult than others. Being a ben Melech is mechayev a person to be arrogant mitzad atzmo. The fact that we are ALSO requiried to be anavim doesn’t detract that from. Some people are natural anavim and have trouble working on the pride they must feel as a Ben melech and some people are naturally arrogant and have trouble working on the anavah they need to feel from tikun haMidos.
The case of Dama ben Nesina is not in contradiction to what R’ Ahron said. He didn’t say that Licoln really was a liar but that despite the fact that he was so honest we need to remember that “a goy is a goy”. Dama ben Nesina may have excelled in kibud av, but that doesn’t give him a chezkas kashrus. What does the gemara say about how well he performed any of the sheva mitzvos? Nothing. he may have been the biggest ganav for all we know- except in the case of where it conflcited with kibud av. And since I don’t have to be dan him l’caf zchus, there is no problem saying that. Unlike the jew who pases the doorman and doesn’t say hello or thank you that we DO have to be dan l’kaf zchus.
“And how do you know that they have a Tzelem Elokim?”
Well, the Torah explicitly says so.
Haleivi:
It is a mishna. chaviv adam shenivra b’tzelem
There is no mitsva to feel pride!!! Avrohom Avinu, Moshe , Aharon and Dovid HaMelech felt they were nothing. It is only the heintike kleine mentchen need the “pride” to prop the up.
“Al tevoeini regel ga’ava ve’yad reshoim al tenideini”.(Attn: Myfriend)
Ahd who is talking about where in Olam Ha’Ba one is going to be? We were talking about some regarding nochrim as beheimos.
DM, This is not how I understood what Reb Aharon allegedly said.
BTW, a Yid could lose his heilek be’Olam HaBa (according to the Rambam — one intentional kares is enough).
According to you, what exactly was Reb Aharon’s point?
Charlie,
I see you are enthralled with mother Teresa. So let me ask you, forget Bobby Fischer, how about yourself. Do you feel that YOU are better then the nun? Why?
Wolf,
Perhaps you can let us know how you are so sure that your preferences are those of HKB”H?
Is your statement based on any halacha or halachic source?
youre arguing about different concepts
it is well known that Jews have a higher form of Neshama than the people of the nations. this is a basic principle of Yiddishkeit mentioned many places especially the Ramchal.
is the behavior of Yidden better than that of the nations?
as a People, certainly, far better, far more moral, far closer to Hashem and his ways, far more gentle and kind and generous.
individuals? thats a whole different story. certainly the behavior of a particular goy can be considerably better than some particular Yid. mother theresa must have been far more beloved in Shamayim than bobby, but their potential was in no way comparable.
and of course, every human being who comes from Odom HaRishon has a Tzelem Elokim. theres no room to argue otherwise
Some people believe they share a common descent with gorillas. For them there may be room to argue they don’t have a Tzelem Elokim.
Jose: Talk about kleinikeit. You are completely sidestepping the topic.
Mod-80: I move that this thread be closed. If people want to prop themselves up by denigrating good middos and anyone who possesses them, they can do it in a physical coffee room.
Mod80, I agree with you. [Shehecheyanu!]
A Jew has the potential to climb to greater spiritual heights, but it also means if he fails, he failed much worse.
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