Time For Truth: Why Won't You Date A Ba'alas Teshuva?

I am not a boy or the mother of a boy.

I am a girl in shidduchim, just like you.

I date Baalei Teshuva and some times my friends think I am crazy, they ask me if I’m not worried about their past and their previous relationships.

If this is my friend’s mindset, I would guess it would hold true for FFB boys and their mothers.

I’m not in shidduchim.

But I will tell you this: I’ve heard hesitation in accepting a BT shidduch suggestion because “so many BT’s have gone back to their old ways”… Not because I agree with that, just figured I’d throw it out there for you to chew one. (You DID ask…)

On another note: Do YOU consider BT’s as shidduch suggestions? (Besides the fact that I’m curious if BT’s sometimes prefer non-BT shidduchim, I also happen to know of a great guy with a BT background… I know this is a wild idea… but hey, ya never know)

Honestly, in this day and age, someone’s personal background can be the same of any BT. I believe it is parents who are looking for yichus that have a problem with BT. As far as why a boy or girl would be afraid to date a BT, I will give you an honest opinion. A BT is a lot more serious about yiddishkeit than an FFB. A BT is usually more committed and usually knows why they do what they do. They have answers and many FFB don’t. If a BT were to question an FFB about brochos or why they say certain tefilos or do certain things. They would not have the answers but a BT would, because the studied it and researched it. That is the fear. A BT is so much more appreciative of our religion than an FFB who just performs the rituals because that is what they were taught to do from the time they were born.

Some people have told me it’s because they are scared of taharas hamishpacha issues.

Phrum

I treat each person/date as a completely different experience and go in with a clear mind and dont compare them to any other BT.

Every journey and person is so different so I find that when people make blanket statements about Bts its mainly out of ignorance.

I dated one guy who was from an extremely “frum” Reform family who came to the realization at 13 that Reform is completely hypocritical. He also felt that Aish and Ohr Samayach where brain washing programs and he was completely against the concept of the kiruv movement. He was extremely into learning but wasnt “Yeshivish” at all.

I also dated a guy who first came into contact with real frum jews through SEED, and that was the catalyst to his becoming Frum. He is extremely Yeshivish.

Those two examples I think were the most contrasting.

The “problem” I’ve encountered is that in the end I find that BTs usually are most comfortable with others with the same background as them. Fantastically, I think BTs want to marry FFBs but when push comes to shove they are usually most comfortable with people who went through the same experiences as themselves.

I’m not saying it cant be done, I would be more than happy to marry a BT, I feel that they are more sincere about their Yiddishkeit and they are more multi-faceted than the typical Yeshiva guy (thats just me) but more often than not if a BT is honest with themselves, they will realize that its easier and more comfortable to stick with like minded like experience people, instead of dating for x amount of years before coming to that conclusion.

we all know the great levels which a baal teshuva has and how loved he is in hashems eyes, but a child born to parents who do not keep taharas hamishpacha has what is known as a pegam which is a kabalistic concept. the many virtues of a baal teshuva may over-ride this disadvantage, and this pegam may be far less than the pegam many ffb’s may have from other things they do, but the pegam which belongs collectively to baley teshuvah is the parents.

let us not forget that avrohom came from terach and see where he got to!

in times gone by when ffb’s were less street wise than today than a “boy” ffb may have contained his pure level of raishis oni which a baal teshuva will almost certainly have lost. [unfortunately today even the ffb’s aren’t what they used to be

twisted

You got hacked by going to shmutz sites and you decide not to go to YWN anymore for that reason?

That is twisted!

apy, who wears the pants in your house?

Sacrilege – Im also a girl in shidduchim and date BTs.

But most boys aren’t what I would consider “real” BTs (at least not the ones suggested to me) they just come from less observant homes and became more observant.

pascha

I have gone out with some of those as well, frum out situations. More modern backgrounds and they became frummer then their families the examples that I gave where “real” BTs, altho the latters family did become shomer shabbos/tahara hamishpacha/kashrus due to his becoming frum.

BTW, check your email the Mods sent you my email address. I had though of a potential shidduch for you (if your interested)

mdd

I think many BTs would be offended by that statement. People, especially ones that have “kedusha tendencies” usually arent the ones that are partaking in the extra curricular activities, shall we say.

Ok. Here is part of the truth. People think that:

A. Many BT’s are weird. A little off.

B. If you are a changing person, how is anyone to know how set you are in what you are doing now.

C. Some BT’s seem to be living in a different sort of world, where ideals replace realities. This is closely connected to A.”

Very true statement. Just to add a few comments.

When I was grow up, the only religious person I knew was my grandfather. By observing his way of life, I got an opinion, that religious people are SPECIAL people. Unfortunately, I still live with this opinion till today. And when in real life I see some ffb people, who not very honest in business dealing, not follow all, what they learn in yeshiva / kollel, it cause me almost a physical pain. Yes, I may look in your eyes weird, but did some ffb ever try to look on yourself by my eyes, when they cheat me in a store, telling offensive jokes about BT at the Shabbos table? If you try to emulate Avraham Aviny by doing kiruv, maybe (just maybe) you need to try to emulate his other midos as well.

eishes chayil in training, the gemara’s point is to find a match close to your background.

i will give another example in addition to BT-FFB and sfardi- ashkenazi that i think are not the same backround and will cause unneeded friction: FFB american to an FFB israeli. there are big differences in mentality between the two . not a good idea. also i heard from a great rosh yeshiva that he holds that despite a common language, American and British is not a good choice. cappeesh?

we are not trying to find a match in every category ! that is the wrong approach and a shtus! marriage is about putting two DIFFERENT people together,which is hard enough! there is no mitzvah to make your life even harder by choosing a partner who comes from a different planet altogether.

Sometimes people want an extended family (I know several ben/bas yechidim). It is possible that a BT may not have a relationship with their family that these people want. In this regard a BT is no different than an FFB from a small family or one that has issues with family.

I think we should start a new catergory, – how about BTFB?

Who has not done t’shuva? The ba’alei ga’ava and people who do not care about other Yidden!

Many BTs know hilchos kashrus and other basic halachos much better than FFBs as they had to learn it systematically, whereas the schools the FFBs went to assumed the kids would learn it through osmosis.

Many BTs come from lovely families, warm people who would make lovely machutanim and grandparents.

HOWEVER, you may want to listen to a tape series from Rabbi Braun of Ohr Sameach on shidduchim. He asserts that for many BTs, depending on their background, a typical FFB might not be best for them. Not that they need to look for someone with the identical issues they’re facing, but they may do best with someone who him/herself has had some transformative experience, etc., a little more depth if you will. (This may also apply to kids who went OTD for a while, or “took a little detour”, IMO; but note the word “may”.)

I will confess, as a parent, one concern is if a BT had “experience”. My kid might not (again, might) be able to handle going into a relationship with someone who’s had such experience. And people might also be concerned that you might have done some experimenting, even mild, that could come back to bite you. I don’t know who you’re dealing with as far as mentors, shadchanim, references, but you want to make sure you have a handler who can discreetly and skillfully answer any questions the other side may have. You still have a right to privacy, no one is entitled to know every detail of your life, but they do have a right to be sure you’re safe and to know some general history. (And this also applies to FFBs who’ve been out of the system for a time and come back.)

What kind of IRL mentoring and support are you getting?

Hope none of this was offensive, and all was helpful. Hatzlacha! I don’t have anyone in the parsha at the moment but I’d be proud to call you niece 😉

Time for truth: Why won’t you date a ba’alas teshuva?

I think the title is wrong. The question maight be better answered if when we speak of the shidduch crisis, and all the girls out there.

Imagine you are a 24 year old Yeshiva Bochur. With all the choices and all the desperate girls, why should you date a ba’alas teshuva?

Twisted

Sorry. You should be zoche to never get hacked again!

GAW,yes. I know a family where they have a single girl in her upper thirties, but they would not consider a BT for a son-in-law.

GAW,yes. I know a family where they have a single girl in her upper thirties, but they would not consider a BT for a son-in-law.

For a girl not to be dating on her own once she is in her upper thirties….sounds like more is going on.

Anyway, I have no experience with that type of discrimination, so I have no comment.

The problem is more with the parents than the person.

Many non religious parents consider it “as slap in the face” when their children don’t forfil the parent’s ambition when they become religious and then you and your children’s relationship with them can become very challenging to say the least

Actually, ,it was more my concern. Knowing that someone’s had certain experiences, not first with you, could be disconcerting.

And by stuff that could come back to bite, take needles, e.g.

It sounds like you are making excellent hishtadlus. There’s something going on that is clearly indicative that we are in ikvesa d’Mishicha and that is all the good girls like you out there, in front of whose houses you’d expect to see lines of boys in a normal world. Hatzlacha!

AishesChayil-in-Training. Did I say something to the contrary?