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Right. An unknown source claims that the appearance is based on the appearance of a cat which is a “lucky charm” and you jump to the conclusion that it’s AZ. Huge leap there.
Actually, three huge leaps.
DY: Wikipedia is not my source. This was years ago, but I’ll try and backtrack it and see where it came from.
OK, two and and a half huge leaps.
This is how it come out based on my reading of the Wikipedia article:
1) The “Maneki-neko” is a sort of good-luck omen, but is not worshipped itself. At most, it is treated as if it can tell the future and I’m pretty sure that nowadays, the vast minority of people who have it displayed do it just for show (and don’t believe it has any “powers”)
2) There is NO evidence that Hello Kitty is based on this Maneki-neko. The first picture looks somewhat similar to it; that’s because it’s a cat, and Hello Kitty is also a cat.
I’ve actually seen the waving cat thing several times in the windows of (non kosher) Chinese restaurants, and always have seen it golden. That really looks nothing like Hello Kitty.
3) Even if I agree that Maneki-neko is an Avodah Zara and that Hello Kitty is based on it (which I’m not prepared to do), Hello Kitty would only be based on it, not being another version of Maneki-neko.
4) Finally, let’s say Hello Kitty was designed to be an Avodah Zara.
Now, there are a lot of crazy people out there, but I have never heard of anyone ever worshipping Hello Kitty. Does it have the halachic status of Avodah Zara if it was never worshipped as such?
Have a good Shabbos.
Ivdu: No, it would not have a status of A”Z that is Assur B’hana’ah, though owning one (if it’s meant to represent the idol) would be Chukas Aku”m. It’s not an A”Z itself and I wouldn’t seriously claim it as such (this whole thread has been fairly not-serious), but we should be sensitive to utilizing things, even children’s toys, that come from A”Z sources. You wouldn’t let your kids play with a cross, would you?
Hello Kitty is actually based on an Egyptian idol known as the cat.
And also, good luck/fortune telling stuff are avoda zara.
The Yankees can prevent tragedies.
It could be that the followers of the Tznius avodah zara are misunderstanding the posuk of a HaTznei Holeches im Hashem Elokecha. HaTznei is an adjective not a proper noun!
Sam, you mention yoga as avoda zara. Why do you say this?
Benignuman, you are absolutely right.
Separate point: the word yoga actually refers to certain Indian religious practices.
Sam2:
Unlike a cross, hello kitty is not associated with any religion or cult. Even if that’s what is based on, nobody knows it.
Matan1: From Wikipedia (read more there for more; bold mine)
[1] in Hinduism, Buddhism (including Vajrayana and Tibetan Buddhism[2][3][4]) and Jainism,[5][6][7][6] the best-known being Hatha yoga and Raja yoga. The term yoga is derived from the literal meaning of “yoking together” a span of horses or oxes,[1] but came to be applied to the “yoking” of mind and body.[1]
The origins of Yoga may date back to pre-vedic Indian traditions. The earliest accounts of yoga-practices are to be found in the Buddhist Nikayas.[8] Parallel developments were recorded around 400 CE in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali,[9] [10][11]”
Most ancient Far East martial arts contain aspects of A”Z at their core, though Yoga and Tai Chi are by far the worst.
FTR, I’m with ivdu here. It’s just a cute picture, and does not represent any AZ.
And I think Moshiach would come if the Yankees dressed more tznius (waiting for Oomis to correct my grammar).
Sam2:
So it’s asur to do yoga? When I say yoga I just mean the exercise part without any philosophy.
Ivdu: I don’t know. It’s hard to call things with actual health and/or psychological benefits Avodah Zarah. I once saw at someone’s house a book which detailed yoga positions and “why” they have the effects that they have. That was certainly Avodah Zarah.
Sam, that would be at most a problem of Lo Saasun Kein Lashem Elokecha. But it shouldn’t be that either, because: A) We aren’t using it for Avodas Hashem, and B) We aren’t looking to it as a method of their Avodas Hashem, only as a technical method that was shown to have physical benefits.
The Magid Meisharim says that Avraham Avinu studied Egyptian established methods, which were used and developed for AZ, to use for holy purposes.
While the “why” in that book might be based on AZ, it probably came after it was shown to help. This is how it works in science as well. Experimentation usually precedes the theory.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the Issur of ‘Avoda’ Zara is exactly that, Avoda — worship. Actions based upon the ideology of a belief system on Avoda Zara is not worship. This is why, the Rambam explains Kishuf to be based on AZ, it is a separate Issur and has many Kulos, including Lihislamed, to undo previous Kishuf, and isn’t Yehoreg V’al Yaavor.
HaLeiVi: You’re right. I meant to write Chukas Aku”m instead of A”Z in my last post.
Everybody knows that it’s (if not outright A”Z) church-ish to say “Cross your fingers” or “Knock on wood”. But it really gets me when a Jewish publication writes something like “It’s my mantra” or “She’s my idol” or “He’s an icon” in this or that industry or “It’s the Holy Grail” of some field of research.
They also say things like “Such-and-such supermarket has become a Mecca for the Kosher consumer.” How are the Jews supposed to get in to shop?
Also, Terry Pratchett. Yeah, him again.
I know. Whenever I hear that, I’m like, HOLY COW!
in todays day/generation, actors, baseball players, batman, spiderman etc… is like avoda zara to children its their life & god to them.
don’t worry adults have their avoda zara too. certain people they depend on too much & treat them like a god putting their whole life into this persons hands & many other adult avoda zaras each person himself privately knows exactly what his/her avoda zaras are to them
I think your list of avoda zara is your avoda zara.
MA: Very little has enhanced my Yiddishkeit as much as Spiderman. “With great power comes great responsibility” is an import Yesod that everyone should be taught.
Very little has enhanced my Yiddishkeit as much as Spiderman.
I’m sorry to hear that.
It would have been more appropriate, (as well as pride-inducing for a litle kid) to learn that that value of Spiderman is taken from the Torah. Big chunks of Devarim is Moshe reminding bnei yisroel that when they became a great nation in EY, they shouldn’t forget the weakest members of society. this is our value, 3,000 years ahead; mi k’amcha yisrael!
Veltz: That’s funny. That was supposed to read “important”.
DY: Why? I’m not. To paraphrase R’ Aharon Lichtenstein Zatz”al, some people can see everything in Torah. I can’t, so I studied science as well. It’s the same thing. Maybe I could have found that Yesod in Torah. But I have not found it anywhere as powerfully as Uncle Ben put it.
I’m sorry to hear that.
DY: You didn’t answer why.
That’s true.
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