The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us!

RSo – As someone intimately familiar with the yeshivish world, I cannot vouch for it being better than lubavich (especially the more modern neighborhoods.)

Yeridas Hadoirois affects everybody.

There are many things to criticize Chabad about, but tznius is an unfair one, especially in this dor.

Sechel – Ill say it then: There is so much yeshivish garbage history out tere, it sometimes surpasses Chabad.

(Such as the state of Yeshivois was excellent before the war, that most gedolim were antizionist – some were but some were not, etc etc)

He wrote a teshuva about the Rebbe not being Mashiach (i.e. all the meshichistim sources are not lehalacha or misconstrued.) I don’t believe it was published in sefer, but Harav google might be able to find it.

Sechel: Sorry, I won’t give out my details. Privacy is very important to me.

But if you can answer it here clearly in this forum, I’d appreciate it. (I will not attack you, I respect you too much, though I may disagree.)

I’ve learned that we don’t sleep in the sukkah for the same reason we don’t sleep wrapped in tefillin,

ELi – Good comparision, except that one Hashem told us explicitly to do.

YR,
Thank you for bringing the Tshuva to my attention. It’s printed in Mishne Halochos Chelek Yud Zayin. I won’t comment on it before reading the entire Tshuva, but one thing worth mentioning is the tremendous respect he accords the Rebbe, (see the last few lines of the Tshuva) and him standing up for what he saw as a Bizayon to the Rebbe (and so do I for that matter) .

“Sorry, I won’t give out my details. Privacy is very important to me.”

One of the great things about Gmail is, that you can make any email address you like, and it takes about 30 seconds. If you seriously want to know everything I have to say, ask the mods to send me an email address that I can correspond with you on.

Thanks for the accolades and the respect you give my opinions, though it’s not really deserved. Out of thousands of Lubavitchers who could tell you the same things I have, מה’ מצעדי גבר כוננו and it was me who chanced upon this thread.

Sechel, and of course, all those who mevazeh the Rebbe with Yechi had no problem being mevazeh Rav Menashe Klein – ON THE DAY HE DIED.

But still nobody is willing to write these chevra out of chabad with a public kol koreh.

SH – Notice that rav Klein calls Meshichistim Apikorsim. Even though it’s not technically correct, but in metziyos it is correct, as we see from their igros-divination and other things.

“There are many things to criticize Chabad about, but tznius is an unfair one, especially in this dor.”

That’s what I said even when I was in the thick on the fight on this thread. It’s usually a throwing stones in a glass house scenario when people bring it up. Any tznius problem in Chabad is nowhere near as bad as in the MO or Open Orthodoxy.

I will say for RSo, however, that he has been upfront that he is speaking from a Chassidish point of view concerning this. I think the tznius problems in the non-Chassidish community are irrelevant to him. His gripe is that the Chassidish world has always enjoyed a status of having better tznius, so for one high-visibility group to throw that into question by claiming to be the authority on what it means to be Chassidish would be frustrating.

Rso: I’m not here to convince you, I don’t see it happening in the near future, just when you bad mouth Lubavitch and the Rebbe I do intend to say the truth, I don’t have to expect it, hut can’t make up your personal shitas and say it’s factual, without any godel backing you up.
Until you you quote me a godel that says what you say, and not just saying many ‘gedolim didn’t hold of Lubavitch”, (which I’m sure you can find some, but not exactly what you say) I think it’s worthless to continue, because you’re getting stuck in a hole. For example, the Rebbe made up the musag nossi hador, miss quoting Gemorahs, spreading 7 mitzvos Beni noach is “Stam mishigasim”, davaning my a Rebbes/godels kaver- avodah zarah, chabad are koifri, (not all you said, but all was said, just can’t keep track of who said what), when so many Rebbeim and gedolim except Lubavitchers, and didn’t think they are koifrim, (like I named before),

Do you still think shavah mitzvos is stam mishugasim? And nossi hador is made up by the Rebbe? And davaning by a kever is kefira…….???

And for the record you should think twice before you say something about the Rebbe or frierdiker Rebbe, (I know when they say something that gets you offended, you just call it non true of fiction), because they are storys that they had kapeidis on people. (Useally it’s known that they don’t but sometimes we heard that they did.) If you ever want to ask michila, don’t do it here, go ask by the Rebbes ohel.

Rso: “No, I can’t tell you what a godol is, but I can tell you just a few of the criteria that he must possess:”

Stira menei ubei. But I can answer of you want.

Rso: 1. He doesn’t try to explain away halochos that he doesn’t keep as irrelevant or inapplicable (e.g. sleeping in a sukkah, not eating Seudah Shlishis, davening after zman tefillah).

First this is a monhag Lubavitch going back the doirios before, and some you can see in other kriesin. second of you know any thing about the Rebbe, he was makpid on halacha, but at the same time he respected a hanhogah of a Rebbe, but even then it is told that the Rebbe didn’t sleep a whole sukkis because of the chshash.

Rso: “2. He doesn’t want to have his name, his picture and his movement plastered everywhere.”

From rule book does this rule come from?
And btw in the early years that Rebbe didn’t anyone take pictures of him, and you can see some pics that the Rebbe block, and there is a story with Sholom Yisrael (I think his last name is) chadekov, which the Rebbe block the camera, (you can see the same with the satmer Rebbe).

Rso: “3, He doesn’t come up with childish “proofs” that his movement is the correct one (e.g. Beis Mashiach is begematria 770).”

Don’t get the problem. (Surprised you called childish).

Rso: “4. He tries to ensure there will be a hemshech so that it will not become a vacuum after his passing with everyone doing whatever they want in his name.”

Again making up criterias.
And btw do you have clue what’s going on in ponivich? Everyone still calls them godel beyisrael.

Rso: “5. He doesn’t think about promoting himself.”

Cool to see that you have ruach hakodesh, and know what’s going on in his mind. (And why don’t you say the same thing about shach?)

Again these are all made up criterias by a little pipsqueak

All I see is that many gedoilim like I mentioned before don’t think of Lubavitch and aovidy avodah zarah, koifrim, vechulu.
They even learn Lubavitch chassidus, for example harav Chaim kaniefsky which took the sefrei chassidus chabad from Rav berel Lazar, and said to bring the seforim to his room to learn.

Lask: I know you are a wise man but I’ve learned that the reason the Chabad does not sleep in the sukkah is for the same reason one does not sleep wrapped in tefillin–namely, one should be fully conscious when engaged in such mitzvot.

An explanation about wives cannot be correct since even those unmarried are not encouraged to sleep in the sukkah even under perfect weather conditions.

Claiming that all of Klal Yisroel outside Chabad somehow falls short is completely out of line.

I’m not saying your falling short. I’m saying that there’s a debate over the Shiur of one’s respect to their Rov/Rebbe.

Eli Y, I just quoted the RMA in SA O’CH 639,2

Some questions:
1)Do you ask Hashem or The Rebbe when you ask the Igros?

2) If it’s the Rebbe, can you use
a)Just the igrois
b)any of The Rebbe’s seforim
c)any sefer in the world
d)any sign in the world (eg, “Rebbe, show me your listening”, and then you see a picture of the Rebbe)

3) Can I ask just the Rebbe, or can I ask any of the Chabad rebbeim? For that matter, can I ask Rav Moshe Feinstein in Igros Moshe?

4)Why isn’t the Igros an issur deoiraisa of Lo Senachesh? Your asking for a sign from heaven (even from Hashem that’s assur, and Gorel Hagra was done very rarely and with lots of preperation precisely to avoid this issur)

First of all, there is absolutely no source in the Rebbes teachings to ask Igros. Zero. The Rebbe said that everyone should appoint himself a Mashpiya, and if one doesn’t know what to do (and this, by the way, was already true before 94 – there was never a time in Lubavitch, at least not in the past two generations, that the average Chossid was able to just shmooze with the Rebbe. There just wasn’t enough time for this), he should ask a Rov for Halachic shaylas, a doctor for medical issues, or knowledgeable friends for business questions.

The Hergesh started after the Rebbe’s passing, and I’ve never heard it ever officially encouraged (as it is absolutely sourceless), and I’ve heard a few Rabbonim (including Meshichist ones, by the way) argue against it. It seems to share a common source with the Goral HaGra, but as it’s a Hergesh, there are obviously no rules. I mean, I would definitely feel uncomfortable addressing a Rebbe picture, and I’m almost positive that in all the places that I’ve seen which talks about Rebbe pictures, nowhere did the Rebbe say that they’re to be used for communicating with him.

Note also, that the point of the Hachanos for a Goral HaGra is to get an answer. If it would be Nichush, no amount of preparations would permit it. But if you look at the Poskim who permit the Goral HaGra, they don’t mention anything about being “prepared”. The Hetter is from “Ki Hu Chayeinu”.

But there’s generally no problem asking questions of dead people. Look at the beginning of the third Perek of Berachos. So yes, you can ask Reb Moshe or Avraham Avinu, and there shouldn’t be any Halachic problems.

And the Arizal would talk to the souls of those who passed away, and would learn Torah from them – implying a two way communication:

ועתה אכתוב מקום קברות הצדיקים, כפי אשר קבלתי ממורי זלה”ה, וכבר הודעתיך כי הוא היה רואה ומסתכל בנשמות הצדיקים, בכל מקום ובכל זמן, ומכ”ש בהיותו על קבריהם, ששם נפשותיהם עומדות כנודע, גם מרחוק עיניו יביטו בנפש הצדיק העומד על הקבר שלו, ועי”ז היה יודע קבר כל צדיק וצדיק, והיה מדבר עמהם, ולומד מהם כמה סתרי תורה.

(From the Kakdama to Shaar HaGilgulim)

Username,
Do I know you?

@ Username

“And the Arizal would talk to the souls of those who passed away, and would learn Torah from them – implying a two way communication”

You left out the fact that the Ari z”l took no action to bring the souls to him

coffee addict, your reason for Eli Y, I don’t think is correct because RMA above needs an exemption to clear someone from the mitzva of sleeping in the sukkah, indicating that normally if the exemption does not apply there is a mitzva, but his reasoning eliminates the mitzva altogether.

Do I know you?

How do I know? 🙂

“How do I know? 🙂”
Well you can give some clues…

“There’s no debate that early Chassidim Davened late (after Zman Tefilla), and there’s absolutely nowhere in Shulchan Aruch which lets you daven late for the sake of Kavana”

True, and just like the Rebbe was Meyashev not sleeping in the Sukkah, I believe that the Minchas Elazar has a Tshuva justifying Chassidim davening late. If someone here can find the source, I’d greatly appreciate it.

“it is told that the Rebbe didn’t sleep a whole sukkis because of the chshash.”

WHAT!!!????
Sechel – this is what I mean about typical Chabad insanity – NOBODY can go without sleep for a few days. Yet chassid has no problem believing the Rebbe is more than a human being.

Sechel – I thought you wanted a phone number and my real name. I don’t just hand those out indiscriminately. An email address I can give the mods. Also, please answer my Nevuah question in a public forum – did the Rebbe actually say he was a Navi like CS claimed? I hope not. Because if he did, I have some reconsidering about the Rebbe being a gadol I have to do.

I have no intention of bringing up sukkah again here in this forum – my main intention was to demondtrate that it’s not merely sinas chinam when litvishers call certain chabadniks kofrim, but rather that there’s a basis for that.

Username, I like how you cleverly avoided my questions without answering them. CS is just avoidning them? Or more likely she’s busy.

Laskern – Please don’t tell me Leolam Yehai Adam. Be an adam and actually READ what I write before responding with the appropriate propoganda point.

rockstar: “but tznius is an unfair one, especially in this dor”

I disagree. We’re not talking about individual acts and individual nisyonos. We’re talking about the apparent shita of a movement, and there’s no excuse for having a bad shita.

Chossid: “And nossi hador is made up by the Rebbe?”

Yes, and I have proven it. Remember, my statement was that there has been no such thing for (at least) hundreds of years. Moshe Rabbeinu was the Nossi Hador. There were nesi’im of Shevatim. There were the nesi’im in Eretz Yisroel. But the concept Nossi hador as applied to someone in the last hundreds of years originated with the last lubavicher rebbe.

(I was going to answer the question you asked immediately prior to the one I quoted above, but I thought that there’s no point stam offending you. וד”ל)

Chossid on my “criteria”: “Again making up criterias.”
100%. It is what I, and I alone, expect from a gadol beYisroel. Who makes up your criteria? Seriously.

“And btw do you have clue what’s going on in ponivich? Everyone still calls them godel beyisrael.”
Everyone. You forget that I’m not a Litvak.

Rso: “5. He doesn’t think about promoting himself.”
Cool to see that you have ruach hakodesh, and know what’s going on in his mind. (And why don’t you say the same thing about shach?)”
No ruach hakodesh. But every frum Yid decides for themselves who is a gadol beYisrael. Some might use criteria given by others, but in the end each Yid decides which criteria to use. Just as you chose to believe whatever your rebbe says. It’s YOU choosing to do that. No one is forcing you.
So even though I don’t KNOW what’s going on in “his mind” I have to judge by what I see. And that’s the way I see it.
And in reply to saying the same thing about Rav Shach. You don’t know what I think of him because I haven’t discussed him, so please don’t assume.

“Again these are all made up criterias by a little pipsqueak”
Yep. This pipsqueak is making criteria (there is no such word as criterias, as criteria is already the plural) to determine what this pipsqueak should believe. As I wrote above you can decide on your own criteria for your far more brilliant mind.