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@CS- “Also we see the way the Rebbe treated the Frierdiker Rebbe – on the one hand the Rebbe (the year after the Frierdiker Rebbes histalkus) directed chassidim to bring their panim to the Frierdiker Rebbe and said he’s with us just like before with no difference. The Rebbe even said that if someone says the Frierdiker Rebbe has passed on he is a pere Adam a vilde mentch!!”
Hysterical. I’ve literally quoted the sichas you paraphrase here as a question on lubavitch practice, and you bring it as a source. Nuts.
@Username, Cs, et al: I’m done. I don’t have koach to point out every logical inconsistency, the scary crazy hanhagos, and research the points I want to make. I have a real, actually very demanding, life, and can’t afford wasting more time. I quit the CR for a few years until relatively recently, and now I remember why. At the end of the day, I’m thoroughly convinced that lubavitchers and muslims have something in common; the muslim concept of Taqiyya. You can google or wiki it if you don’t know what it means. I honestly have come away from these “conversations” more wary of lubavitchers, and see no tachlis in pursuing the discussion.I feel like I’m understanding people here more and more.
I’ll disagree with out on that.
Okay, I’ll break my rule one more time, only because rso called me out on it. Answer: I was laying a trap. They didn’t say it, they wouldn’t say it, they’ll never say it, and it should be obvious to all why. See my sign off post.
OK! Shoin! Let’s put this thread to sleep. Neither side will capitulate, and this back-and-forth will go on “biz Moshiach wett kumen”.
Good Night…Btw I think this is the longest thread we’ve had so far. Yasher koach everyone. I feel like I’m understanding people here more and more.
No,
The joke thread has 2010 posts
@ CS
“However he told Rabbi Avtzon, if you see things differently, it’s your *chov* to go out and teach it!”
Interesting. I don’t see that as an endorsement. More like go do your thing and be vocal about it so that everyone knows what your views are.
Nah lets continue – this is fun!
@ CS
“By gedolim who are you referring to?”
“One thing I’ve learned on this forum is that the kinds of things the Rebbe said and did etc weren’t normal as in other Rebbe’s don’t speak or behave that way. And I guess that’s given me a deeper understanding of how a Nossi hador is different.”
You know very well who the Gedolim where / are. The point is that outside of your stream of Lubavitch no Rabbonim (including Chabbad ones) endorse what you guys do / believe. Also (and more importantly) , none of the Rebbonim in your circle are recognized as authoritative by any Torah Authority outside. By the standards you yourself purport to embrace this should give you pause.
CS: “…of how a Nossi hador is different”
There is no such thing as a Nossi hador, and I’m going to keep on pointing it out whenever you use it. Your rebbe made it up and anointed himself with it.
Similarly, as I suspected, the term Beis Mashiach exists only in the relation to the statements of the late lubavicher rebbe. I did a full search. In other words, he made up the term and lo and behold it has a gematria of 770! Wow! If that’s not a proof that he’s mashiach (or at least thinks he is) nothing is. It’s even better than Ufaratzta having the gematria of 770… if you don’t count the vov.
Finally, any useful reply to the impossibility of the sundial story being true? (Another thing I’m going to nag about.)
So now that we came to a maskona that chabad are not koifrim (even mishichistim, just they are nuts in the head) and we are not davaning to the Rebbe, so it’s not avodah zorah cs”v, just like you guys davaning by Rav Shtieman zatzal keiver (right rso?!).
I think it’s a chiyuv for all you guys to not only apologize for being moitzi Shem rah on yeddin but also to correct your friends and communities.True, but many or most chassidim feel uncomfortable using it by the Rebbe, because the Frierdiker Rebbe lived on through the Rebbe while the Rebbe is still our Rebbe and has not passed on from us in any sense (like the way the Rebbe felt in tof shin yud before he accepted the nesius.) but both shittos have what to rely on.
And there you have it
Syag he was referring to the top of the Chabad chassidishe yomim tovim – ie special Chabad dates (There are a good few) of which YTK is definitely top.
Well that’s a lie. He was listing ALL the yomim tovim and what day of the month they fall on. He said all yomim tovim fall in the beginning or middle of the month except 2. Then he named them, Rosh hashana, sukkos etc. then he said only 2 fall at the end of the month, the Yom Tov of Chanukah, and the Yom Tov of yomim tovim (ch”v) 19 kislev
Well, to make the anology to an earlier “jewish” offshoot, Dec 25, & Easter
are ALSO “Chaga of Chagoos” (ch”y), but it seems to sollow in the same footsteps … Leider!CS in reply to I forget whom: ““There was never a Shvil for the Frierdiker Rebbe.”
Agreed. I think it’s a shtus”Oh, I get it. THAT’S a shtus, but all the other garbage isn’t.
What about the sundial?
No, the previous threads had closed because of the spewing hatred from both sides as well as some questionable apikorsus. After some of your recent posts this may be heading that way as well.
Mr mod,
I’m just waiting for the קץ 😄
Chossid: “So now that we came to a maskona that chabad are not koifrim”
Whose haskoma? I see it only as a hava amina.
Whose haskoma? I see it only as a hava amina.
At least Reb Aharon Feldman holds that way explicitly. See his Teshuva on moshiachtalk.
So first what’s the maskona?
And let’s say you have a have mina, just because of that hava mina, you are going to call Lubavitche koifrim?Why don’t you have a hava mina that the davaning at Rav Shtieman zatzal keiver is avodah zarah???
Chossid: “Why don’t you have a hava mina that the davaning at Rav Shtieman zatzal keiver is avodah zarah???”
1. I’m not a Litvak so it has nothing to do with me.
2. I never had a hava amina that davening at a keiver so that the person should be a meilitz yosher, or so that the zechus of the niftar should help, is apikorsus. There are other things in lubavich, as I have pointed out a number of times, that still leave me with a hava amina.
Didn’t you just join the CR? I’ve been here for almost two years now.
While it’s true that i just joined the Coffeeroom, but I was a lurker on and off from even before the days of the coffeeroom (where every news story would have 423 comments). The good times when gefen, oomis, yummy cupcake, chaplaintzvi, midwesterner, and Syag would kibbitz together, pba would troll, and the not-so-good times, when… well, we won’t go there.
But, even more important, I do have litvish friends IRL, and I do hang around that community.
But, even more important, I do have litvish friends IRL, and I do hang around that community.
Just to make it clear, I don’t talk to them about Chassidus at all. Period.
1. I’m not a Litvak so it has nothing to do with me.
Are you Lubavitche? Doesn’t look like it, and fro some reason that has to do with you, to call them koifrim.
2. I never had a hava amina that davening at a keiver so that the person should be a meilitz yosher, or so that the zechus of the niftar should help, is apikorsus. There are other things in lubavich, as I have pointed out a number of times, that still leave me with a hava amina.
So it’s seems from here that you you do agree that davaning that the Rebbe should be a mielitz yoisher is not kfira or avodah zarah. And thats is actually what Lubavitche does
just because of that hava mina, you are going to call Lubavitche koifrim?? (Apikursim)?,
??????????????“So it’s seems from here that you you do agree that davaning that the Rebbe should be a mielitz yoisher is not kfira or avodah zarah. And thats is actually what Lubavitche does”
Some parts of Lubavich. Unfortunately it’s not a hava mina, as many meshichists take “atzmus areingeshtelt in a guf” literally enough that they daven to him and believe he answers the tefilla.
A meshichist – NOT elokist – told me that the Rebbe is on a higher level than simply tzaddik gozer and hashem mekayim – rather that the rebbe nasi hador is in in charge of the world and he can do things himself in this world, (his moshol – just like switching a light switch isn’t tzaddik gozer vehashem mekayim, but rather the person switching it does it, so too the Rebbe’s nissim in this world comes from him switching the light switch for that nes – he himself is actually doing it and not hashem, so therefore you can ask the rebbe requests and he’ll answer you.
I would assume CS agrees with this moshol.
And in myview (and Hashem’s view), it’s kefira, plain and simple.
The Rebbe is the conduit between the Hashem and the Bnei Yisroel.
If the moshol of the Rebbe operating the light switch WITHOUT Hashem (Ch”v), how does that agree with “EIN OD MILVADO”?
According to the Ramban that is what happened by the aigel hazahav where they wanted to replace Moshe Rabbenu then the erav rav ended up worshipping it.
Username123321
I owe you an apology for the tone of my initial response to your posts.
Chosid to me: “1. I’m not a Litvak so it has nothing to do with me.
Are you Lubavitche? Doesn’t look like it, and fro some reason that has to do with you, to call them koifrim.”I don’t recall calling them kofrim. That was someone else. And anyway, if Litvaks kept on trying to convert me to questionable beliefs I would consider them on the same low level as lubavichers. But they don’t, and lubavichers do!
“just because of that hava mina, you are going to call Lubavitche koifrim?? (Apikursim)?”
As I wrote, I don’t recall calling them kofrim or apikorsim. I may be wrong so please show me where I wrote that. On the other hand, I will admit publicly that I believe that some of what many lubavichers preach/claim is very close to apikorsus.
Is that it? No one’s going to explain to me how the fictitious sundial works?
“he’s unique that he cares to be normal and comes across that way as well”
CS, did you really write that about Reuven Wolf?! Have you got a different Journal of Modern Psychology than the rest of the world?
CS, you are very frustrating because you write such garbage – I believe that you believe it – that it’s hard for me to know where to start.
In a nutshell:
1. I don’t care how you justify your calling your rebbe Nossi Hador. The term does NOT exist except in lubavich circles. It was invented by guess who and it applies to him.2. Your claim that your rebbe loved every Jew is disproven by the fact that he fought with so many gedolei hador over so many things. He prohibited Satmar hechsheirim, he called Rav Shach a derogatory name etc. Of course he made up an excuse that was “lesheim Shamayim” for each case, but to say he loved every Jew because that’s what you decided is not acceptable.
3. Countless other Chassidishe Rebbes cared more about Yidden woldwide than your rebbe did. Your rebbe’s clear agenda was to promote Lubavitch and himself (as Mashiach). That’s why he liked his picture plastered everywhere. That’s why he accepted a tambourine emblazoned with the words “Yechi…” from a looney women who begged him to reveal himself as Mashiach etc and he didn’t tell her that she was talking garbage. That’s why when in 5743 (I think it was Simchas Torah) when they started singing “Yechi…” he made them stop because it would push people away from lubavich, and NOT because it was just the wrong thing to do. That’s why he had to have all politicians and gedolei Yisroel come to him and he wouldn’t go to them. (I think I have already mentioned that in lubavich they hated PM Shamir because he refused to come to 770.) I could go on but I think I’ve proven my point.CS (finally replying to my sundial nagging): “As far as the sundial thing, I’ll just reiterate that I stand by my above post addressing that, and will also add that in the story itself, it notes that the sundial not working only several hours a day was not a common thing (ie most sundials do not work that way) and it had puzzled many great experts for that reason.
So yeah to take a prototype sundial experiment from third grade, when sundials are not even in use nowadays and to use that to say the entire book is fiction seems silly to me.”Thank you for proving the point that has been made numerous times: Lubavichers believe what they want to and never let facts get in the way.
I would like to let you in on a little secret. By the time I was in third grade I could read fairly well. But that doesn’t mean that my reading hasn’t improved since as probably every day since then I have practiced that skill. Similarly, in third grade I understood the basic workings of a sundial, but my understanding has improved over time.
Some things, however, don’t change. Just as I still read the words “the cat is wearing a hat” the same way I did in third grade, so too sundial work the same way they did then. And, now please try to get this point, there is no way that trees, mountains, Superman or even the lubavicher rebbe can make a sundial not work between the hours of 2 and 5 in the afternoon. This is true even if they can be seen. NOTHING can affect the working of a sundial if they can’t be seen.The reason the sundial “puzzled many experts” is very simple. Those experts were as fictional as the sundial!
One more point about it. The story clearly tells us that it was not some koach hatumah that affected the sundial. If that was the case I could bedieved have accepted it. But according to the story it was something scientific that the Baal Hatanya knew. That is fiction!
CS about the sundial story (I forgot to add this at the end of my last post): “to use that to say the entire book is fiction seems silly to me”
OK. So let’s agree that the entire book is not fiction. Just the parts that he made up are.
While on the topic of lubavich public relations, there is a video of the first night of Chanukah with Secretary Ryan Zinke lighting the Chanukah candle, Not just the shamash, but the candle as well.
Zinke. although a good friend of Israel, is a lutheran non-Jew. Is there nothing that they will do for PR in lubavich?
As a good chassidishe (non-lubavich) Israeli friend of mine has said to me on more than one occasion when bemoaning what has become of lubavich, “This is what happens when a chassidus based in America adopts Ameican values.”
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