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I find that people completely misunderstand when Lubavitchers say things like the above, and panic, or happily relegate us as kofrim, depending on their education.
So I thought to clarify: no we don’t mean that now we can change halacha or that the halachic definition of Geula is upon us cv”s (although we wish it was, as all Jews do).
We mean that if you look at the promises of what the Geula will be like, you will see that because we are so close to Geula, the Geula descriptions of the world state, are actually happening now- not perfect yet, but closer to Geula than Golus.
See this description of the time of Geula from the Rambam, Hilchos Melachim, perek 12, Halacha 5:
ובאותו הזמן לא יהיה שם לא רעב
Today there is abundant food supply worldwide, and if a nation doesn’t have food, it isn’t because there isn’t enough, but because the leaders don’t use their resources properlyולא מלחמה
Although there is still war today, it is not nationalistic ideal it used to be, but is seen as bad, and only to be used as a last resort.ולא קנאה ותחרות
Cooperation is values much more today than competition. The attitude is we all win together instead of winners and losers.שהטובה תהיה מושפעת הרבה וכל המעדנים מצויין כעפר
families considered poor today have homes, electricity, meat and chicken, fridges and more.ולא יהיה עסק כל העולם אלא לדעת את ה’ בלבד
Not perfect yet, although there is a general trend of a search for meaning, and there is increasing numbers of christians coming to learn from Jews, and even rejecting it altogether. The world is a ready receptive place to learn more, and we should really be more active in teaaching the nations the sheva mitzvos bnei noachולפיכך יהיו ישראל חכמים גדולים
Jews today have the time to learn, all children go to school, there are whole communities where the men can sit and learn all day while their wives support themויודעים דברים הסתומים וישיגו דעת בוראם כפי כח האדם
The study of kabbala and chassidus is accesible to everyone today, in many languages and formsשנאמר כי מלאה הארץ דעה את ה’ כמים לים מכסים:
Now of course, all the above will be realized at a much deeper level when Moshiach comes, but if you compare the world today to how it was 100 years ago, it is allot closer to the Geula reality than the golus one which we lived in since forever.
So that’s what we mean when we say the world is ready for the Geula or the world is in a state of Geula.
Seriously, no one cares. Stop pushing your Chabadsky agenda.
I didnt know the rambam was a chabatzker?
Thanks for the latest news.we are so close to Geula
How does that affect the way that we carry out our daily lives? Does it mean that we should live as if the Geula will happen tomorrow, and that today may be our last chance to show Hashem that we are deserving of His favorable judgement?
Much of what Chabadshlucha says about our times is true, some of it not, but it is really all totally irrelevant.
The Rambam she is basing on is talking about when Moshiach has already been declared and all the Yidden have gathered to him, as he writes in Hilchos Melachim perel 12 …בימי המלך המשיח, כשתתיישב ממלכתו ויתקבצו אליו כל ישראל .
We are not at that stage, and from the Rambam there is absolutely no indication that even immediately prior to that stage the world will be a better place than it ever was.
While a lot of what CS points out is correct, it really has nothing to do with Mashiach’s times because the Rambam she quotes says explicitly that that’s the way the world will be AFTER Mashiach has arrived and the Jewish People will gather around him.
Nowhere does it indicate that even immediately prior to that stage will the world be a better place than it ever was as far as CS’s understanding is concerned.
CS, your positive attitude is refreshing, but I think limited to your own narrow experience.
“Although there is still war today, it is not nationalistic ideal it used to be, but is seen as bad, and only to be used as a last resort.”
Perhaps that is how it is viewed by the US and western countries, but the US is not the whole world. Does not apply to ISIS, Syria, Iran, Russia, N Korea.“Cooperation is values much more today than competition. The attitude is we all win together instead of winners and losers.”
Sure, that is why Trump needs to impose tariffs, why China steals intellectual property, why Europe was so eager for the sanctions on Iran to end so they could trade there..etc. Ok, maybe there is a new trend in kids’ board games to follow a cooperative rather than competitive model, but the real world has a ways to go to that end.“families considered poor today have homes, electricity, meat and chicken, fridges and more.”
Yes, in western countries today’s poor have more than the poor of the shtetle in Eastern Europe, but there are plenty of families who don’t have meat and chicken in their fridges, whose electricity get turned off when they don’t pay their bills, not to mention the majority who live in third world countries who don’t have the basics that have become the standard in the west.“not perfect yet, although there is a general trend of a search for meaning, …”
This is very reassuring to British Jews whose chinuch is threatened by the new liberal norms, by the sweeping moral change in the western countries where wrong has become right, and right is vilified as wrong.
Where anything goes, and those who protest the change in long-accepted status quos are considered evil. if anything, one can argue that we are getting farther from that ideal, and that is davka a sign of mashiach, when the world and its values turn upside-down.But of course you are right, we are closer to Geula now than we were 100 years ago, just as we were closer 100 years ago than we were 200 years ago.
We’ll be lucky if we’re close enough that we can see the shpitz of the crown of Moshiach.
CS, אני מאמין באמונה שלמה בביאת המשיח…
…but, do you realize how little sense you make?
Moshiach must be coming soon because the world is getting so much better, and Moshiach must be coming soon because the world is getting so much worse?
CS you can’t have it both ways. You say that the good things in the world show that Mashiach is nearly here and then you say that the night is darkest before the dawn and that therefore when things are worse it’s an indication Mashiach is nearly here!
CS you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that we can see from the good things in the world that Mashiach is nearly here and then say about the bad things that the night is always darkest before the dawn!
Maybe the bad things show Mashiach isn’t close by, and the good things show that we are not near the dawn c”v.
However, right before Geula, it is foretold that good and evil will polarize and become black and white.
…while the garbage today is surface level.
Another contradictory statement.
Just stop already. Just follow the Torah because Hashem commanded, and daven for Moshiach. Trying to force Moshiach didn’t work in the 90’s, and won’t work today. If he comes (hopefully b’karov), it’ll be because Hashem decrees that it’s the time.
Meanwhile, you’re making a mockery of the concept of geulah.
CS:
I’m not going to voice any argument or anything on the topic. Just a little word of internet advice: when your post exceeds the max-post-limit multiple times, it’s way longer than anyone is willing to read. People don’t come to an internet forum to read War and Peace; we come for quick, instant satisfaction. If’ you’re really putting a lot of time into these posts, it’s a shame, because it’s highly unlikely anyone is reading them fully.“The moving of the embassy to Jerusalem- the start of the nations recognizing EY belongs to us.”
Typical chabad 2 sided talk,
“…but, do you realize how little sense you make?
Moshiach must be coming soon because the world is getting so much better, and Moshiach must be coming soon because the world is getting so much worse?”
Chazal realized it many years ago…it says that Mushiach will come either DUR SHEKULOY ZAKAY OR CHAYAV! Got it!
I have a great way to work towards the coming of moshiach
Think outside of yourself and towards love of every Jew
That includes NKs, WoW, and any yid that you don’t agree with (that includes people that might call you a kofer for your beliefs
When hate leaves the world moshiach will come
1. Actually the oomot haolam recognized that EY (including Ever haYarden) is our at the San Remo Conference.
2. So far as the situation in Chul is concerned, it could be that the Trump Court (he is getting to nominate under Justice and with Breyer almost 80 and Ginzberg already 85 he might get to pick two more).
CS don’t worry a lot of these people just don’t understand and it’s very sad. It seems like they want to remain in Golus just so they can continue learning. They don’t even begin to understand what moshiach will bring, and while neither do we, already we have a sincere wanting for it.
(Firstly I apologise for my double posts. Lately when I post there is nothing to indicate that it went through, and I have then been posting again using a different browser. It seems both browsers have been successful.)
CS writes: “All the above took place in 1991-1992, and the Rebbe pointed out all these as signs of the coming of the geula.”
Over 25 years is a long time to wait for the “immediate redemption” as the Lubavitcher Rebbe used to say “now”! How much Yiddishe suffering has there been in those years?
She continues: “Then the world seemed to be plunged into darkness. The darkness before dawn.From the euphoria of expecting the Geula at any moment, Chabad was greeted with gimmel Tammuz. It seems in general there is a lack of the kind of Torah leadership that existed all the years, although we have Rabbanim today, its not the same…”
That is not only poppycock but it is a terrible thing to say! Chazal tell us that HKBH “planted” tsaddikim in each generation. To make that generalisation because you are a lubavitcher and you haven’t been clever enough to appoint a successor insults the entire Torah world, its Rabbonim and its tsaddikim.
I am mocheh, and I would expect others to be mocheh too!
For me, the mindset is that once Moshiach comes, free choice will be gone as we will all see Hashem and the game of struggle to choose the good will be over. So today may be the last chance I have to make a positive difference in this world that helps it it a more Geula’dike kind of place.
@Chabadshlucha
Thanks for the explanation.Chutzpa yasgi- Your whole thread is a kiyum, though I’m not sure of anything more than the literal teich.
edited
Ehh, once again you all fell for it. When a chabadster brings up a subject, it’s not to teach you it’s to put you down by proving how much chabad is “better” and more “correct” than everyone else. Don’t you get it by now? I don’t know why you are even attempting to answer these “points” they have explanations for everything and it always seems to be tailored perfectly to their side. It’s funny to see these reactions though as if you are still shocked by this behavior after all the other threads. A quick glance at their websites will help you understand their mindset and agenda.
“I have a great way to work towards the coming of moshiach
Think outside of yourself and towards love of every Jew
That includes NKs, WoW, and any yid that you don’t agree with (that includes people that might call you a kofer for your beliefs
When hate leaves the world moshiach will come”
Halo mesan’echa Hashem esna, uviskomemecha eskotat.
Tehillim 139:21Ehh, once again you all fell for it. When a chabadster brings up a subject, it’s not to teach you it’s to put you down by proving how much chabad is “better” and more “correct” than everyone else.
“Faith is the ability to hear the music beneath the noise.”
Rabbi Jonathan SacksWell said @midwesterner and @DovidBT!!!
I’m not a Chabadnik, but I really don’t get all the hostility posted here. Why can’t people just “take the best, and leave the rest?” Even a staunch Litvak would have to admit how much good Chabad has done to advance the Jewish cause. If one travels for business, even to some remote po-dunk kind of city, there’s bound to be a Chabad and probably even a kosher restaurant or at least the website to their Chabad house or shul will have a list of where to buy kosher food. No abba, even Hashem, likes it when his children are at each other’s throats. Kol Tov!
Create achdus by learning torah lishmah as the T”Z says in O”CH 47 where Torah is a give and take, questions and answers, bringing people together and eliminating sinas chinom. This will correct the reason for the destruction of the temple and bring Moshiach speedily in our time, Amen.
All three pillars unify us. Torah mentioned above, Avoda , if davening, we show caring for others. If doing mitzvos, we can encourage others to do them. Gemilos Chasodim is obvious. All three have the same gematria 611. Avoda is the same as Yiras and Gemilos Chasodim.
If all Coffee Room users would only speak nice and never say anything bad to their opponent, then for sure Mashiach will be here before you know it!
I dont think most frum jews REALLY want the Geulah. What percentage when Moshiach will come will refuse to sell their business or sell their homes at a loss, Buy an overpriced El Al ticket or C/V be forced to sit next to a member of the opposite gender on that flight and hold up the plane for its return
Hey, I think that’s my first edited post. I don’t even remember what I wrote. Why the rainbow lettering?
my personal protest against the missing subtitles – 29
Why do people in the CR need to label groups of people as different/bad
What does it gain?
I think, it comes from the sefer chasidim.
It is also עקבתא דמשיחא time for עקב תשמעון at the sof we will all listen because of our afflictions. It will be the time when ירהבו הנער בזקן the young will lift up themselves over the elder and will not respect them.
Coffee Addict, it makes them feel less bad about themselves.
@Mod29- Oh, the subtitles…kinda miss mine. Is it weird that I remember it?
I think many people remember theirs, we enjoyed that feature very much.
I am mocheh, and I would expect others to be mocheh too!
Do we need to be mocheh on every one of these threads?
I guess we should.
“Over 25 years is a long time to wait for the “immediate redemption” as the Lubavitcher Rebbe used to say “now”! How much Yiddishe suffering has there been in those years?”
Agreed. No one is happy about it.
Nobody in your circles can seem to be objective enough to admit that the Rebbe was wrong. He didn’t guess or speculate that Moshiach was coming immediately, he stated it as a certainty.
“… and get guidance…”
Cuckoo.
There is no such thing as a tzadik without a Yetzer Hara.
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