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Nobody forces people in to marriage in the litvish world but I know people convince people to get marry out of convenience. “Doesn’t a bachur look for a girl that could support him”. If that is not convenience then what is it? Doesn’t a girl look for a boy with good yichus? If that is not convenience then what is it? What about rich looking for rich. Well we might not be in the middle ages but I know for sure this still in our times. Ashkenaz with ashkkenaz, sepharady with sepharady. And please make sure they come from a good family that they know from the old country. If that is not convenience tell me What is this?
So many interesting points. I would like to make a blanket statement. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and is extremely subjective. Just because a woman is physically attractive, dos not mean she will be attractive to a specific man. What should we do, a start choosing our friends or guests based on their UNATTRACTIVENESS (which is also subjective)???? This can get really out of hand.
People should spend time with their families, and that’s it. There’s no reason to socialize with anyone who is not your family. To do so simply opens the door to aveiros.
Mosherose, you must have a fascinating, incredible family, because it is usually very boring and limiting to spend time ONLY with your family.
People should spend time with their families, and that’s it. There’s no reason to socialize with anyone who is not your family.
And if you have no family? I am not married. Both my parents are gone. I have no siblings. I should spend my entire life in my apartment by myself?
haifagirl:
Don’t forget, according to moshrose, you shouldn’t be able to go to a shadchan either, unless it is a family member. Chas V’sholom if your talking to a shadchan that might be married herself and maybe a male member of her household might walk into the house that you are in while meeting with her. Or even worse, perhaps that shadchan is a male and then you get into all sorts of trouble. <sarcasm>
Mosherose:
In your view of the world, this definition that you have that “There’s no reason to socialize with anyone who is not your family.” Does this include grandparents and cousins or only parents and siblings?
Does this mean you only go to simcha’s that only have immediate family and noone else?
If you can get the rabbonim to do a kol korei on this, it will greatly reduce the size and expenditures of weddings, bar mitzvahs, etc… You would have single handedly saved the simcha-making crisis.
“People should spend time with their families, and that’s it. There’s no reason to socialize with anyone who is not your family.”
That’s not frumkeit.
Have you ever benefited from a family with an “open door” policy? I guess when you learned in E”Y you never ate by anyone, and I assume you have never opened your door and heart to someone who needed a warm meal or a listening ear. There’s a lot of space between young couples inviting each other to socialize, and “people should spend time with their families, and that’s it”.
Nuance is an important word.
There is a difference between having a lot of guests and having the SAME couple over and over again. One is nice. One causes problems.
Again, there is something to be said for a healthy balance. We have a family that we are very good friends with. Generally speaking, we either have them over, or they have us over about 3-4 times a year. In fact, we have a “tradition” with this family where we have them over for the last day of Pesach. The running joke is that we are their “geborkts dealer.”
Agreed, having the same couple over week after week may not be healthy — but I don’t think that just because you have them over once that it should result in a ban from them ever coming over again — even on a semi-regular basis. Moderation is the name of the game.
The Wolf
Going back to the issue of the number of dates, here is a well known story about the famous posek, Rabbi Moshe Bick, who noticed an increase in family discord of newlyweds that led to divorce. He let it be known that he strongly suggested that when a boy and girl date in pursuit of marriage that they date at least eight times to become more acquainted with each other and thus minimize “surprises” after marriage. When this came to the ears of the Holy Admor of Satmar, he sharply disagreed, saying, “‘Katzti v’chayai mipnei bnos CHES,” I am disgusted with meeting girls EIGHT times.” Upon hearing this, Rabbi Bick responded to the Rebbe, that although he is much subservient to him, nevertheless, the Rebbe is honoured with “sidur kidushin” while Rabbi Bick is honoured with “sidur gitin.” Being exposed to the issues involved, he asked the Rebbe to acquiesce to his opinion. The Rebbe accepted this.
(see: http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/fleisher/archives/toldos69.htm)
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