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Give me a break. Chevra who are working 15 hours a day in high-powered lawyer jobs don’t take month-long breaks every 3 months. We yeshiva guys, (the ones who aren’t wandering around in the coffee room scratching ourselves), are such hard workers that we need to do so? This nonsense has to end ASAP. People on the outside are beginning to wake up.
But what about those who are putting in the full hours? They DO need the break.
It’s up to the Roshei Yeshiva to sift through and ask those not giving it their all to leave, or at least stay in the Yeshiva only part time.Being hezemanim in the Yeshiva learning world is only 3 weeks Long from Tisha B’av until Rosh chodesh elul and not months long line you mentioned or as long as the children’s summer season months between school ending and the new school year starting again
I think you need to remind yourself that bein hazemanim is just a short time for them to refresh themselves for the entire new upcoming year ahead starting from elul already. learning yungeleit are humans too and need a break to refresh themselves for the new year of learning ahead.
People wanting to post here should be required to pass a minimum intelligence test.
Students normally take vacation. They are infamous for it in all cultures. Fortunately, our students don’t get into (much) mischief. And okay, in the past it used to take a week or two to go home (back when most walked and fasted transportation was an ox-cart or s stage coach). One should also note that nothing requires a student to use a vacation for goofing off. It isn’t like Tisha B’Av where learning Torah is prohibited.
@OP you must be enrolled in the TROLLer Yeshiva, this is very big issue with the Trollers
As mentioned earlier the only real break is in Chodesh Av whether from Rosh Chodesh or Tisha Beav.
Most serious Kollelim have only from from Tisha Beav. Yeshivos vary.
And yes, a serious Yeshivaman is in Kollel from Shacharis until 11 p.m., with small lunch and supper breaks. If you don’t know such a person, it is probably because you hung around the wrong Chevra when in Kollel (if you were at all).
And yes, a Kollelman needs a break from structured learning, whether it is to spend time with his family, which commonly he may barely see from Shabbos to Shabbos because the little ones are asleep when he gets home from night seder, or to learn his own limud at his own timing.
Bachurim, for sure need bein hazmanim. They are basically mandated students; some of them happy and prosperous in Yeshiva; some not. They are young boys holding up the world with their Limud Hatorah, and need to feel that we appreciate them and give them their appropiate breaks.
I think anyone kvetching about too much bein hazmanim doesn’t appreciate the sacrifice Kollel Yungerleit are making, living on an extremely tight budget, forgoing all the extras most people take for granted as “must haves” and are the one keeping those others alive and well in their zechus.
Same with our Hielige Bachurim who are “horoving” in learning. Some love it and some don’t. But are doing it anyways.
Of course there are the “leidigeiers” but that doesn’t take away from the ones putting in the best of their kochos and are upholding the world- YOUR WORLD!!
HONOR THEM. RESPECT THEM. SHARE IN THEIR ZECHUS!!!!
about vacations:
school summer vacations are historically so that kids could work in the fields. Winter vacations – to celebrate saturnalia and such.
Jews in Bavel indeed had vacations twice a year between harvests – so that they could go to yeshiva to learn.
Netziv went to lakes in Lita when doctors insisted that his health requires it. He ran away on a second day back to yeshiva.
R Salanter took vacations seriously: when he was told that his health requires visits to a spa, he was noticed there re-reading doctor’s instructions to make sure to do exercises as prescribed and at prescribed times, and also eating non-pas-yisroel bread because someone donated money to help him improve his health, not his chumros.
אשרי מי שעמלו בתורה
bein hazmanim is not ‘off from school’
it’s a relaxed time when a Yid can choose for himself what to learn on his own and may get a change of scenery if he chooses to go somewhere
Amal HaTorah is straining alot more than sitting in a luxurious lawyer’s office!
חכמים הזהרו בדבריכםDistinguished panelists: Perhaps the very title of this thread is lashon hara about generations and generations of our choshuve bnei yeshiva??
@OP you must be enrolled in the TROLLer Yeshiva, this is very big issue with the Trollers
Common,
Welcome, I was waiting for you!
A new trend in some American Yeshivos in EY is to let out already on Shushan Purim. They guys get on a flight back to America and are off until Rosh Chodesh Iyar. Gevald! Some let out on Rosh Chodesh Nissan. Amohl, it took 2 weeks to get from Pinsk to Minsk by train or wagon. That would bring the guys back to their families for Erev Pesach. So, that’s how the Rosh Chodesh thing started, and understandable. Not applicable in 2024. The guys will come into the shuls for Mincha-Maariv and we are supposed to all be so proud of them. The next morning, they are asking the Gabbai to schedule a 10 AM Shacharis. I guess with an extra Adar, we are supposed to be empathetic that they had such a long and grueling Zman.
Herr Doktor, methinks thou dost need to chill
Shazsheri, your post is deplorable, infuriating, and ignorant. And, while you may have intended it as such, can’t see why one would risk their olam habah for the thrill of the troll. Your statements are tragic testimony to nothing other than your own environment and possible need for a balm to sooth the scars of your personal failures. I personally know “not one”, but many many bochurim and kollel yungerleit that do put in full hours. Davening a proper shachris in the yeshiva, and learning 12-14 hours a day, and more. But its so much more than the hours. It is the morning to night attachment to their learning. Literally doing nothing other than davening properly, tending to the demands of their physical needs, and often not even properly addressing those. Have you ever experienced sitting by the breakfast table and chazerring in your head what you did the day before while planning out what you need to accomplish that day? Jumping out of bed to look something up that may be relevant to your days learning? And doing this 7 days a week? I know MANY that do. You are in the wrong environment and promoting ignorance. I am not denying that many, most don’t. Each to their own level, and the level runs the gamut, but לא ראיתי אינה ראי’, DON’T sell our heroes short! Furthermore, are you familiar with the system of learning camps? High school aged bochurim, sometimes BM too, and many BM bochurim go as staff. First seder is 10-1, some have short second seder, and all have a night seder. Some have the bochurim print torah and they write a sefer, some have visiting shiurim, most have a basic standard. Obviously, as in yeshivos themselves, some bochurim are more adherent and some less, but, many have reasonable to significant learning. And, even the BM aged boys that take road trips, the better level bochurim, will have sedorim, davening etc. As far as pace of learning, why don’t we just leave that to the roshei hayeshiva? For a Yeshiva World poster to feel entitled to have and voice an opinion is just illustrative of the ills of the social media culture. Terrifying. You are so clearly not in the know and just spreading motzei shem rah.
i couldnt be maskim more to harotzehbilumshmo who ever takes shazsherri seriously is mammash an apikores for more than one reason-
1. he saying the equivilant of “mai ahanei lahu rabanan” who chazal say is an apikores.
2. secondly the seder hayeshivos was set up by gedolei hador and you could only wish to be zocheh to come close to there toenails, and with this shittah not even.i am flabbergasted that such a despicable conversation was even opened on a website that has the word yeshiva in its name.
i have a klerr to be dan lekaff zechus that shazsherri was just a loi yitzlach yeshivah bachur, hated the system, and became a malshin who hates emes and hashkafas hatorah and spends his meaningless days spreading slander bc he feels stupid about his failings.or maybe hes just a random janitor or even a muslim maartyr who picked up a computer and decided to write word for word the opposite of what he heard any chashuv person ever say, takkeh yesh ladun in these tzdadim
to his more recent attempt of a point that kuches on the pace of todays yeshivos that is a zaytige zach and id be happy to discuss it but just know you are going against kematt the whole oilam hatorah of america (no, not counting the reform congregation which you are zicher a member of )
their is a clear hashgacha in the way it turned out in america and yes israeli gedolim have a diff derech but america also has gedolim and they also thought of your taanuh.
this is machriyah me a little to my first tzad hanizkar liayl that your just a lo yitzlach malshin bc you prob couldnt chap iyun shiur or were to lazy to do more than basic shnayim mikrah or bekiyus so you also want to kuch on those you are jealous of who actually know how to learn.i suggest you talk to someone chasuv about your twisted ideas which most probobly reflect on on your twisted lifeestyle
10 weeks a year- 3 in the summer, 3 in Tishrei, the month of Nisan. Who you kidding?
“People wanting to post here should be required to pass a minimum intelligence test.“
😂
Maybe
Let’s give the mods more work to do!
😂
I don’t know who is right in this debate, but I am concerned that a couple of posters claiming to represent bnei yeshiva use rude language when confronted with different opinions and can only bring argumenta ab auctoritate and ad hominem to support their view. What is the point of shteiging if you are not learning how to be mench and how to construct a logical argument?
I assume the gedolim knew a little bit better than you when the set up the yeshiva schedule like this.
It is well known that after they cancelled bein hazmanim because of the yom kippur war, that was the worst winter zman for many of the bnei torah. Maybe just maybe there’s something to it.REMMS composed חידושים during BHZ on inyanim that were not yeshivish.
Let me tell you something. These “Bein Hazmanim” breaks yield the most engagements. It gives time for Bochurim to focus on dating between the Zman. Families whose husbands learn full time don’t get time to spend a lot of time together. These are usually the most connecting times for husbands and wives. Lucky are those hard working earners that can go away on Pesach vacations, midwinter vacations, Chanukah vacations, tours to Israel. These two times of Bein Hazmanim is it, that’s all the “vacation” time they have. Many bochurim use this time to get their driving licenses (so they can date) medical appointments and shopping. That’s 4 weeks out of the year. What are you complaining about??
Shtell > I assume the gedolim knew a little bit better .. It is well known that after they cancelled bein hazmanim because of the yom kippur war, that was the worst winter zman for many of the bnei torah.
This is unclear – are you claiming that gedolim know better because they are gedolim – but then how they made “the worst winter zman” in 1973? Or you are saying that gedolim know better because they absorbed experience of 1973? (the latter corresponds to Bava Basra description of creating a school system through “trial and error”).
Shomer > What are you complaining about??
If I understand complainers correctly, that feeling comes in response to the position that limud torah protects in lieu of Army service. Of course, army soldiers also get time off, but the whole army doesn’t go home for pesach, at least after Beitar. So, maybe there should be a dedicated group of talmidim continuing thru chofesh with shiurim available online for the whole country to see and join?
The people opposed to the “Bein Hazmanim” season/s for bachurim and kolel yungeleit are usually the most unhappy individuals. They have accomplished nothing in life and have nothing to look forward to. The fact that the Shul is more crowded in those times annoys them. They need to change their attitude. And their outlook on life.
The Bein Hazmanim furloughs started in the times of Gemara. Where one of the Roshei Yeshiva told his talmidim ..”I don’t want to see any of you (in Yeshiva) in the month of Nissan and in the month of Tishrei. Because the economy was agriculturally based in those days. Most people owned or worked on farms and the extra hands were needed for the harvest.
In later years when most famous yeshivas were located in Eastern Europe, sometimes in small towns, it took a long time for the students to arrive back home for Pesach and Rosh ha-Shana. So let’s not begrudge (fargin) the yeshiva/kollel their well deserved vacation.
What did Volozhin do with bein hazmanim? I am aware that they made sure that there is at least someone learning there at all hours 24/7/354 or 384
But maybe majority of students had “time off”? Were they financially supported by the yeshiva/ate “days” during bein hazmanim?
Even during the last year of unfortunate problems, the revolting students supposedly confiscated Rav’s lulav and Esrog – presumably during yomtov.
sketch > .Bein Hazmanim furloughs started in the times of Gemara ”I don’t want to see any of you (in Yeshiva) in the month of Nissan and in the month of Tishrei.
I think you have it backwards. Rather, then bein hazmanim for 2 months, it was meeting (kallah) for 2 months – Adar and Elul, indeed at the end of the harvest season. Most students worked and “learned from home” the rest of the time. They were not “extra hands”, they were primary workers. For example, R Aha b Yaakov sent his son to learn full-time, and when the son did not do well, he left the son to work on the farm and went to learn himself.
Bein hazemanim in Lakewood has already ended with the Elul zeman starting already and the freezer locked up until tu bishvat for those in the parsha of Shidduchim so for the next few months is the best time to work on your bitachon and emunah directly in Hashem cause even if the best Shidduchim are redt to you, it will have to wait but Hashem already has your zivvug waiting for you on a silver platter and us waiting for your Ruchnius HISHTADLUS of bitachon and emunah and tefillah for Hashem to send you your zivvug immediately.
@Sam Klein
L’maan haEmes. The freezer is only for the fresh batch of talmidim. All others are free to skip night seder as they please.
Disclaimer: The existence of the freezer is a bitul asei of the first mitzva kiyumis mentioned in the Torah.
pekak (along with many people in the world)-please don’t go crazy over the freezer. It’s a difference of a few months. Cheshvan to Shvat or Iyar to Av. Those that want to start to be mekayem the hechsher mitzva of that mitzva kiyumis that you mention is free to do so before he goes into the yeshiva.
Regarding Bein Hazmanim, I heard in from Rav Yisroel Reisman many years ago that Bein Hazmanim is to learn things that you normally wouldn’t learn in a yeshiva setting. For example, a short masechta.yeshivaguy > Rav Yisroel Reisman many years ago that Bein Hazmanim is to learn things that you normally wouldn’t learn in a yeshiva setting. For example, a short masechta.
A good idea. Or, as R Twersky suggests to learn physiology to appreciate miracles of Creation, but do it outside of yeshiva hours, you can do that too. Also, learn things that help understand Gemora but are not part of the curriculum: Nach, logic, Jewish and World history, chochmas yavanim 🙂
Camp Teumim has hundreds of bochurim shteiging away throughout the summer. Some even put forth more learning hours during the summer day than they do during the year. Partly, maybe, for the younger bochurim who have English classes during the year!
In EY and here too, many Chassidishe yeshivos have 8-10 days off. That’s it!The OP is speaking like someone who never learned a true Yeshiva zman with any semblance of hasmadah whatsoever. Or, lehavdil, ever did 2 weeks studying for college finals (which require similar breaks afterwards.) Yeshivah zman is months of rigorous studying harder than any college studying for finals.
Twice I met 2 “dinosaurs” like you, who spoke sinnas haTorah like you, not realizing it is no longer PC. One was a baal habayis am ha’aretz not capable of learning a mishnah in artscroll (hard to find today.) The other was a BP “chassideshe rebbe” (who just moved to Lakewood to “lead” us.)
It was Sunday, July 4th weekend at 7:00pm and 90 degrees hot. I asked them how many guys do you think are learning in Kollel right now? They looked at me not understanding the question. They said no one. Everyone is at bbqs. I took them, (different years but same story each,) in my car to the old BMG Bais Eliyahu trailers.) They saw a packed Bais Medrash of about 700 Kollel Yungerleit, with maybe 3 guys in the hallway going in or out of the bathrooms. I asked them if that numbet 3 out 700 is reasonable? They said yes. Then I told them, we are now going to walk up and down the aisles, and asked them to pay attention to 3 things: The average age of the yungerleit, what they are learning, and if they are learning or just shmuzzing. They were each totally blown away to see the average age (in that BMG B”M) was around 40 years old, various groups (chaburos and boididim) each learning different mesechtos throughout Sha”S, and all learning without any other conversation. I had thought I completely changed their attitude. (Now, I am not sure about that rebbe, and I know that prosta baal habust will never change.)Keep your hate to yourself. You probably never learned a difficult Toisfos in Kesubos or Baba Basra etc… in your life, and haven’t opened a Gemara in 25 years, R”n.
I don’t get it. Don’t you have Sundays off? Plus 20 PTO and 10 holidays ? That sums up to 82 days off? The numbers are about the same. Now I do agree that they don’t need all of Nissan off and they don’t need the week after sukkos. I think summer for a month makes sense. As others pointed out, they are students still. But everyone including you needs a summer change of scenery. But yes stam to be home from Purim till pesach shnei is ridiculous
Could we not compare learning with working (on both or more sides of this issue).
A working person works as much as he, and his wife, wants him to. In my opinion, most, including myself, should work less and spend more time learning and raising their families.
A modern learning person is usually supported by someone else. If he is supported by the working wife or a shver or a Zevulun, he should learn as much as they demand from him. If he is supported by the kehillah, then CR posters can question his time, as much as they are part of the kehillah … If they are, fully or in part, supported by US or Israeli taxpayers (directly or thru their wives and sponsors applying for various programs), then they should make sure they are not violating any laws and creating any Hillul Hashem by channeling funds for poor people into their learning. In this case, shteiging 24 hours a day will not help, same as cooking pork for 10 hours will not make into kosher beef.
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