The Importance of Yiddish

Sam – “but who cares”

You seemed to care very much a few hours ago.

And what’s with you and Rav Dovid Cohen’s children?

Does Rav Dovid Cohen speak in Loshan Hakodesh to his children? Of course not.

My Rav speaks Yiddish in his home to his family and children. So what’s your point?

And it doesn’t speak well of anyone that belittles a sefer written by an Eesh Tzadik, a Talmud Chochem and Rav and Posek in our community from before the time most people in the CR were born.

Cherrybim, the quote attributed to me wasn’t said by me.I never questioned Rav Dovid Cohen Shlita’s status as a poseik. Please double-check the author of that post. It wasn’t me. I respect his opinion on yiddish even if it disagrees with Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L’s and my rebbe.

Yiddish, Yiddish, I told you before that Yiddish might be important in New York but here other places people who speak Yiddish are the least frum ones, Please explain.. Is it the languague or the way a person is suppose to carry himself, to learn torah, Yiddish could be a very beautiful languague and remind you of your grandparents but Torah above all is the most important thing, that is my humble opinion.

Jothar

So Rav Dovid Cohen wrote an entire book about Yiddish being a holy language, and never discusses sources or even if it’s a Mitzvah? A real poseik never takes anything for granted. He always looks at the sources. so I ask you, what are the sources? Hoisen?

Cherry: I have to agree with Jothar. He never said Rav Cohen is not a a real poseik. He is just asking a question. There is an implied syllogism there:

A real poseik looks at sources.

Rav Cohen is a real poseik

Therefore Rav Cohen looks at sources.

Now, Jothar wants to know what are those sources.

Cherrybim, that wasn’t meant as an insult to Rav Dovid Cohen Shlit”a.People, when challenged for a source to the mitzvah of Yiddish in that thread, couldn’t come up with anything more solid than “Rav Dovid Cohen wrote a book” and something related to “hoisen”. Nobody seemed to have read the book or known anything about it other than a vague phrase. I meant it that someone should please read his book and tell me what his sources were, since nobody came up with any real sources. I NEVER meant to say he wasn’t a real poseik, chas veshalom. I meant that he WAS a real poseik, and would undoubtedly have sources if he actually meant to pasken it was holy, which I doubted.

Further iyun has revealed that he wrote a book on divrei aggada, and mentioned lashon hakodesh sources for Yiddish phrases. He NEVER paskened that it was holy, and one gets a mitzvah for speaking it, unless I’m completely mistaken. I have been trying to get hold of that book to double-check but have not found anyone who owns it. If you can post translations from his hakdamah I would be very grateful. I want to be sure that he didn’t pasken it was actually holy.

I do believe Yiddish is holy when it’s sung by Lipa 🙂

Yiddish is on a higher plane then other languages, such as Chinese and English, but it is very evident from my posts that Yiddish is not halachic kadosh but rather a respected and exalted form of speech since it incorporates Jewish biblical, historical and cultural experience from the beginning of time.

Yiddish is as holy as cold cuts on rye with a pickle on the side….

Ah, but those Poilishe flomen!!!

jothar, fashtaish yiddish?

I finally laughed in this thread.

Shmeel – Dee rets Yeedish vee a goi.

cherrybin, er redt vi a yid, uber shrabt vi a goy.

I agree that there is a certain ta’am to Yiddish, and I always wished that I could speak and understand it better than I do. (Ich farshtay a bisel, uber nisht zeir gut.) But I have trouble with the schools (in which most students do not come from Yiddish speaking homes) insisting on teitching in Yiddish. I live in a community where ALL the girls schools teitch Chumash in Yiddish through 5th grade, so it’s not like I had a choice where to send my girls. Some of my girls were are not very good at languages, and this really hampered their ability to understand what was being taught, and was a big shtuch to their self-confidence. To be honest, they actually teitch into Yiddish and then English, but for someone who has trouble with languages this can be very disconcerting and is hard to follow along (even if they are not held responsible for the Yiddish).

When I questioned the school’s policy, I was told that this is how Rav ….. held – Rav ….. was niftar over 45 years ago (when Yiddish was still spoken in most homes)! Does anyone bother to ask if this still applies?!

Ironically, when my oldest boy started yeshiva, there were one or two boys yeshivas in the community that teitched straight into English, and my husband insisted on sending him to one of those, based on Rav Yaakov ztz”l’s opinion that talmidim should be taught in the language they are most comfortable in. (I was actually worried that for boys it is necessary to learn Yiddish, but B”H my son is now in Bais Medrash in a very prominent yeshivah, and his love of learning was not compromised by having to struggle to understand what was being taught.)

I think it is a very nice idea to teach Yiddish, but it should be taught as a separate subject, so that if a student has trouble with it, it does not interfere with their comprehension of Chumash or Gemara.

You learn Yiddish to be able to understand the German rock song that starts with “Juden, Juden, kommt nach hause”

Goody,

SHOULD? Are you advocating teaching the Sefardim Yiddish, so that YOU can be connected to them? There actually IS one language that has always united the Jewry – that is the same tongue in which Hashem Yisborach spoke to us at Har Sinai, in which Moshe Rabeinu wrote the Torah, and in which we say our daily tefilos.

Not having changed our language certainly doesn’t mean HAVING adopted midieval German, inserting few juicy Hebrew phrases therein. Interestingly, at the time Yiddish was spoken by the Ashkenazi Jewry, it was exactly the same tongue that the gentiles were using. Just because we never updated its vocabulary and syntax, it doesn’t mean that its origins had anything Jewish about them, not unlike taking on the dress of Polish nobility. At the time, it was a gentile dress, and only NOW it looks so, oy, freem.

Goody613, Rav Moshe ZT”L says that Yiddish, which was known as “lashon Ashkenaz” (IE, the Germanic tongue)in all the seforim hakedoshim until very recently, was no different than Arabic or Spanish which became Ladino. He actually asks, how could the Jews speak Spanish, Arabic, Germanic (which evolved into yiddish) if the Jews didn’t change their language in mitzrayim? He answers that that was only when the Jews had no other distinguishing features. In other words, Yiddish IS A VIOLATION of “lo shinu es leshonam”, as it was the local Germanic tongue isntead of Hebrew or Aramaic.

NY Mom: Thanks for the welcome. I’ve actually been a lurker for a looong time (about a year). I really enjoy reading different points of view on various subjects, but rarely feel strongly enough about any to comment myself. This one I couldn’t resist, since it caused a lot of problems for 2 of my daughters. I believe that it can make a huge difference to many students (both boys and girls) as to whether or not they take an interest in Limudei Kodesh. I believe both my daughters who had trouble with Yiddish lost out on a lot of hashkafah that is taught through Chumash, because they often just tuned out since it was so hard for them to understand.

I met Rav Dovid last night at a simcha and almost asked him for a comment to the CR, but then I felt that it was the wrong place for it; b”n another time. But if you read the hakdama, it says it all.

Jothar, when the mitzva of mechias zecher Amalek will resume, upon Moshiach’s arrival, won’t Yiddish have to be forgotten, as well? The same people who claim the mesorah that Germany is Amalek, can’t let go of the last vestiges of their language.

Jothar, it’s also a greater mitzva to learn Torah than to devote one’s time to probe into the 18th century fashions, to attend nigh-long tishen, or to demonstrate against every little thing. However, some have a difficult time opening a sefer, and find it easier to fulfill their religious obligations through the trappings.

jothar. i guess your right, but the people dont believe you.

With Thanksgiving coming up, maybe we could rename this thread as “The Importance of Indik”?

A turkey, in holy Yiddish 🙂

To Joseph and others who excel at hocking achainik with sources and more sources. You seem to have studiously avoided mention of the Mishna. Now, particularly in Tahoros and Zeraim, the Mishna comments on all matter of mundane objects from bagpipes to the kitchen sink, b’ivrit curiously enough. This would not have made any sense if it was not a living spoken language. along with PJA, the dialect of the Yerushalmi.

As to MH, it is as holy or profane as those who speak it. Tragically, in EY there are the signs of it splitting into two languages, that spoken by our misguided estranged brothers is not the same as that spoken by the Torah communities, not just in choice of words, but in meanings and nuances of words used common to both. Borcheinu avinu kulanu byachad.

Koma,

Why bring the Mishna, or the Ramban, when one can much easier misquote something written in modern times, taken out of context. It is harder to do so with ancient sources, although some do manage still, with myriad twisted proofs about the undead.