The Importance of Yiddish

It was proven it WASN’T, which is why the thread died after I posted the Igros Moshes. Historical revisionism won’t change the result, which is easily available to all who want to view it.

This thread reminds me of a closing line from the famous Oscar Wilde play, The Importance of Speaking Yiddish.

“My nephew, you seem to be displaying signs of triviality.”

“On the contrary,” he replies, “I’ve now realized for the first time in my life the vital Importance of Speaking Yiddish.”

BS”D

Only the phrase “Shygetz Aross” is holy, as the baal Ponim Chalashois (anyone else here know what I am referring to) once said that Ki Sissa = Kol Yisroel Tizaki Shygetz Aross.

I know of schools that only teach Yiddish, no torah, no mitzvot, no shabbat, no kosher, no tziniut.

I know at least 3 very big schools like that. In NY no one has ever seen anything like it, but unfortunately that’s the “holy” Yiddish for secular Jews.

Ich hub farshtanen.

sammygol, With all due respect, I’ve been to MANY Yiddish shiurim from both Roshei Yeshivos and Rabbonim, and I have never experianced what you describe. And I know Yiddish fluently.

In the case you describe, I don’t think anyone would disagree it would have been perfectly fine to use English. Why DID he use a language he had trouble with? Just because a certain thing may be ideal doesn’t mean it is always appropriate. And I don’t see how you can blame others for his choice. Perhaps there is an element to the story you were unfamiliar with?

In the bracha of al hamichya, there is a dispute as to whether to conclude al hamichya or al hamichya v’al hakalkalah. There are some who conclude the bracha al hamichya v’al hakalkalah zogt men nisht. (They add in the words “we don’t say” to cancel out the al hakalkalah if not correct.) A friend of mine was explaining that when Moshe Rabbeinu came down from the mountain he taught the klal that the correct nusach is “al hamichya v’al hakalkalah zogt men nisht.” He said, Look, I know its confusing being that it’s two languages and all, but trust me, this is the nusach I heard from the RBSH.

A talmid muvhok of the Chofetz Chayim who spoke at my aufruf (Yiddish for being called up to the Torah), started with – “I will speak in English, although Yiddish is my own first tongue. I will do that because I heard from mt Rebbi that it isn’t the German in Yiddish that makes it a Jewish language, nor is it the Polish part. It is the lack of nevolo, usage of Chazal’s terminology, and ample reference to T’NaCH. If one speaks English in the same vein, it is just as holy a speech as the one in Yiddish. Which goy can comprehend a discussion spoken in English by a talmid chochom? And THIS is what makes any language holy.” Actually, this is exactly how R’ Hirsch explains “shelaw shinu es leshawnom”.

**know of a whole group of people that have a school and only learn yiddish in perfection, have yiddish plays and thinks yiddish is more important than Torah, you who live in New York, do not know how bad the Yiddish impolse have given to other parts of the world as a matter of fact it has taken people away from Torah and Mitzvos**

srry 2 disagree w/ u again masca but wat is that?! u insinuating that the yiddish language has turned ppl off frm the Torah?

please enlighten me..i am very confused!

sammygol-there are quite a lot of frum yeshivot where I am from and i hav yet to hear wat u described. most yeshiva bochurim hav shiurim in yidish and do become fluent frm them. My family backgrnd isnt quite so yeshivish but whomever in my family went to yeshiva DID indeed pick up yiddish and i never heard of a/o laffing at a mistaken word. Generally many rosh yeshio’s or ebbeim either come frm more yeshiva/yeshivish backgrnds or hav BECOME more yeshivish through yeshiva and don normally hav the problem u jus described. Unless their very american and therefore speak in english.

i once heard that the greatness of yiddish is that we show the germans that the language they used we use for kedusha and thats the biggest shtoch to the nazis

Cherrybim, my hostility to “Holy Yiddish” is because it isn’t holy. I have a right to follow the poseik hador, Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L, on this point, as well as my rebbe, a native yiddish speaker from Europe, who called it an “amaleikishe lashon”. The Mishna Brura didn’t call it a lashon hakodesh. Neither did the Aruch Hashulchan. to them, it was the lashon chol of the balagalos. Until I see a HALACHIC mekor for “heilige yiddish”, it’s bal tosif to say it. If someone made up a mitzvah and said pink bandannas were holy, I’d have the same hostility.

So let’s ignore the “hostility” and boil it down to one line- Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L paskened it’s NOT holy. He was the poseik hador for America. No such mitzvah .The end.

is Aramaic holy?

Ronsr why don’t you start a thread about aramaic?;)

Well like always people in the United States think that you are in the center of the world but sorry to dissapoint you, you are not in the center of the world, and there are a lot of jews all over that is why is called diaspora. Well when the jews immigrated to the united States it was a country with a lot of public schools ,so believe it or not you were the lucky ones, because when jews from europe came to other contries there were not as many public schools as in the States so they brought with them the great Yiddish School with them, and brought a lot of apicurosut from Europe, so in the United States if somebody wanted to have their children in private school the only private schools they found were yeshivas but in places like in Mexico where we have a Tarbut and Yiddish movement that they brought with them from Europe did nothing but made the people that were frum less frum. So if you really think Yiddish has saved the jews, sorry to dissapoint you it has hurt people and a lot of people, here people speak better Yiddish than any rosh yeshiva, you could come here for classes and you wont be dissapointed but if you want to learn a little torah you are not going to find any in those schools. So open your eyes, do not fool yourselves it is beautiful to speak the languague of our ancestors but it is more beautiful to keep their mitzvot.

Joseph, that’s all very nice, but it doesn’t say Yiddish is holy.

sammygol, what does that position have to do with this? I hope you aren’t trying to discredit the Lev HaIvri based on something else he was opposed on. Reb Moshe to disagreed with many on Shabbos Clocks. So what?

The Kuzari writes that Avrohom Avinu, therefore, spoke 2 different languages. One for holy speech – that was Loshon HaKodesh, and the other for mundane speech – that, the Kuzari says was some non-Jewish language that Avrohom Avinu took and changed around a little on his own. And thats the idea behind Yiddish. It is a non-Jewish language that we took and twisted a bit in order to make it exclusive among us.

The Chasam Sofer EH 2:11 says that in ancient times Jews used to use a modified version of the non-Jewish languages for everyday (divrei chol) talk, similar to what Yiddish is.

Of course, one would think that in this day and age, if we feel that we need another language besides Hebrew, we should pick one equaly common to all of Clal Yisrael.

However, it is all a moot point. You want to speak Yiddish? Go right ahead. You can communicate with those who also speak the language. Of course, that means that for most day-to-day activities, you will not be communicating, as you certainly will have some trouble conducting your business in Yiddish, if it outside of Brookly, Lakewood, Bnei Brak, or certain neighborhoods of Yerushalayim.

My favorite Yiddish malapropism concerned the gabbai in a certain shtible in Queens. He announced the rabbi’s shiur, asking people to make the effort to attend, “als di Rov alein ken nisht lernen”

You can always convert.

In Bnei Brak.

First you’ll need to want it though. That would include deleting almost all your blog posts, after coming to terms with Rav Shach’s teachings.

Now, please, just sign across the dotted lines: ________________________________

🙂

In Bnei Brak.

B’nei Brak is the only place I can convert? I highly doubt that.

The Wolf

Hey, Bear, what a good idea. Meanwhile, I know of several Aramit courses available at Universities in Israel, the US, and Europe. Of course, classes are usually mixed….

Well, if you don’t like those classes, don’t take them.

Either prepare a course of study yourself, or wait for the Yeshivot to do it.

If the latter, don’t hold your breath. Bears don’t look so good in that shade of blue.

Kilo, I’ve been saying that for years.

However, I guarantee many people will be against it because it will make gemora too easy for women to learn.