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Tagged: Eliyahu HaNavi, Melech HaMashiach, Sanhedrin
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June 9, 2023 9:42 am at 9:42 am #2198270sechel83Participant
the basic idea of chassidus is ahdus hashem, this is yechida shebinefesh, this is a very very deep concept, when moshiach comes this will be seen with ones eyes, now who can – thru learning chassidus which explains this concept and contemplating in depth on this idea – come to such a recognition, every person according to his level and amount of time and effort he devotes to it, this is why chassidim learned chassidus for hours before davening and then davened for hours, some chassidim davened on shabbos or even during the week for the entire day to be able to see with the עיני השכל the g-dliness in everything more and more.
the more a person internalizes achdus hashem, it refines his midos
so its very diifremt then musar. no reaon to argue about this, just learn a few sifrai chassidus maybe
תניא, דרך מצותיך, תו”א ולקו”ת
if these seforim are too deep for a beginer, there are shiurim on them, or learn the first 4 volumes of likutai sichos which bring these ideas down to simple people who never learned chassidus
so this is why the 9 most likeliest candidates to be moshiach are the baal shem tov, maggid, alter rebbe, mitiler rebbe, tzemach tzedek, rebbe maharash, rebbe rashab, frierdiker rebbe, the rebbe.
now dont bring me any rav this or that who says moshiach cant be from the dead, thats a different discussion, the idea is that this is what moshiach will do – he will teach chassidus!June 9, 2023 10:56 am at 10:56 am #2198286n0mesorahParticipantDear Sechel,
And yet there are some people who are gifted enough to achieve these states, yet they rarley daven or learn chassidus. So please explain why this is even part of this debate. If the Baal Shem had never spread his torah to his talmidim ch”v, nothing would be different. He didn’t invent any aspect of Hashem.
June 9, 2023 10:56 am at 10:56 am #2198305AviraDeArahParticipantRight…so instead of doing what the neviim say moshiach will do (rebuild the bais hamikdash, bring all jews back to eretz yisroel, restore malchus yisroel, make all of the world know Hashem, bring world peace, heal all the sick, etc..)
Nope – his job is to teach chasidus.
June 9, 2023 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #2198332n0mesorahParticipantDear Avira,
How do you think Moshiach will do all that? It requires compliance from everybody!
July 10, 2023 9:17 am at 9:17 am #2206993CSParticipantAvira- not a contradiction. Yes he needs to fulfill all his Halachic criteria to get geula set up. But once that’s done, why is he called a king? What’s the significance? The answer is that he will elevate the people by being משכמו ולמעלה מכל העם in his Neshamas level and comprehension of Elokus, which he will then use to elevate the people. (He won’t need to force/ control the people because we won’t need policemen when moshiach comes. So this is the loftier idea of a king.)
See Derech Mitzvosecha- minui melech for more
July 10, 2023 11:01 am at 11:01 am #2207056AviraDeArahParticipantCs, none of that happened, not even one part of it. And the rambam was aware of the lack of need for war, forcing etc after moshiach comes – but moshiach himself will have to fight wars and coerce people to follow the Torah initially, and that never happened. Not one thing on the rambams list happened at all.
July 10, 2023 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2207251sechel83Participantlitvaks understand moshiach (and judaism) very gashmiusdik. a king will get up – maybe natanyahu – get rid of all the arabs from yerushalayim and eretz yisroel, build the bais hamikdash, bring all yidden to israel and they will learn gemara. chassidus explains much deeper, what a king really is, the giluy elokus that will be then, what a bais hamikdash is bepnimius, etc
July 10, 2023 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #2207270AviraDeArahParticipantSechel, that’s extremely offensive. Have you ever read the chofetz chaim or rav elchanans seforim on moshiach? It’s extremely spiritual.
Just he will also be a physical king.
And he will be a tzadik, not netanyahu.
If it’s offensive for him to say it is no less offensive for you.
July 10, 2023 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #2207328Menachem ShmeiParticipant>>>that’s extremely offensive.
I must say that I agree with Avira here.
Although I agree with Sechel that chassidus puts much more of an added focus on the spiritual aspects of Moshiach, with many maamarim explaining the level(s) of gilui Elokus that we will experience at that time, as well as discussing the neshama of Moshiach etc. –
That doesn’t mean that the litivshers have a solely gashmiusdik view of the Geula, as if it’s something that could be done by some Netanyahu.
This assumption is degrading and offensive.As Avira pointed out, if you look in the seforim of the Chofetz Chayim and Rav Elchanan Wasserman, you will find a lot on the ideas of לתקן עולם, and how we will be able to have a close relationship to Hashem.
And obviously, Melech Moshiach is considered by all (Torah) groups in klal Yisroel to be a tremendous tzaddik and talmid chacham (as the Rambam (nigleh) writes in hilchos melachim and teshuva: הוגה בתורה ועוסק במצוות, חכם גדול הוא יתר משלמה ונביא גדול הוא קרוב למשה וילמד כל העם)
The only ones who fit Sechel’s description are some segments of the “religious zionist” community who think Moshiach is some nationalistic idea of Jews taking control of the land of israel and appointing a king over the land. These people (like David Bar-Hayim, and the like) are not accepted in normative circles (to the best of my knowledge).
July 10, 2023 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #2207343yankel berelParticipantThis whole thread is a reflection of modern Habads influence and brainwash .
our Greatgrandfathers & mothers were not busy with “candidates” for Mashiach . And nor should we.
Rambam wasnt busy with it . Bet Yosef was not . Rama was not . Baal HaTanya was not . and Ben Ish Chai was not either .
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Cf Tanya ,were he says [free translation ]
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WHERE IS THAT NEW MINHAG COMING FROM – SOMETHING OUR FOREFATHERS NEVER KNEW – TO ASK A TSADIK WHERE ONES PARNASAH IS COMING FROM ? THE TSADIK DOESNT KNOW THAT ! LIKE HE DOES NOT KNOW WHO MASHIACH IS , HE ALSO DOES NOT KNOW WHERE A MANS PARNASAH WILL COME FROM AS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE ONE OF THE SEVEN THING WHICH ARE MECHUSIN MIBNE ADAM ! THE ONLY TACHLIT OF GOING TO A TSADIK IS ONLY IN ORDER TO HEAR, WHERE AND HOW THE PETITIONER CAN IMPROVE IN HIS AVODAT HASHEM …..
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Clear from Tanyas words that all of this is mere speculation , non productive and frowned upon .
But who cares about tanya anymore …. We will cherry-pick only what suits us …..July 10, 2023 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #2207359amiricanyeshivishParticipantEven leshitoscho that Mashiach’s job is to teach Elokus why can’t that be done with Ramchal or Sifrei Hagroh? Did the sifrei Chabad put a copywrite on understanding Elokus? Do you think Kabbalah was invented in Lebavitch? The Rishoinim had the Keballah and the Sefardim wrote numerous Kabballah seforim.
Besides saying “Chassidus” and referring only to sifrei Chabad is offensive to all the other Chassideshe seforim. Are they not also “Chassidus”??? Where they pashut not understanding their Rebbe the Baal Shem and the Mezritcher? Only the Baal Hatanya and his descentants understood it?July 11, 2023 8:20 am at 8:20 am #2207422CSParticipantAvira- agreed- none of the conditions for moshiach Vadai have been met (and if anyone gives you a hard time on this- you can see The Rebbe say it himself in kuntres Beis Rabbeinu shebibavel)
July 16, 2023 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #2208713amiricanyeshivishParticipantbump
July 18, 2023 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #2209393sechel83Participantwhy would moshiach be someone who is alive? he will teach torah to moshe rabainu and the avos, who alive today is eligible for that?
July 18, 2023 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #2209448SomedayParticipant@sechel83 Good question. After techiyas hamaisim, we will have back Rebbe Akiva Eiger, The Rambam, The Ramban, The Rashba, Abaye veRava, Rebbe Meir and R’ Yehuda etc… etc…, and as you say Moishe Rabeinu, the greatest navi who ever was or whoever will be. How can Mashiach born in our generation possibly be a leader over them?
R’ Yerucham z”l, the (alter) Mirrer mashgiach, asks this question.
He answers, that although obviously niskatnu hadoiros, even so, in one way, our generation is above all previous generations. We have nisyoinois they did not have…
July 18, 2023 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #2209453amiricanyeshivishParticipantJust to add to @someday
Rav Yerucham Z”L writes that a person today can be learning a sefer from someone many generations ago and little does he know that he is bigger than the writer of the sefer.
July 19, 2023 6:42 am at 6:42 am #2209472Menachem ShmeiParticipant>>>in one way, our generation is above all previous generations. We have nisyoinois they did not have…
This is similar to what’s explained often in Chassidus on the possuk “והאיש משה עניו מאד מכל האדם אשר על פני האדמה” – that when Moshe was shown all the future generations (עד היום האחרון – רש”י), he was humbled by the incredible dedication of the last generation of golus – עקבתא דמשיחא – to Torah and mitzvos, despite the incredible challenges and hardships.
“וכידוע תורת רבינו הזקן עה”פ והאיש משה עניו מאד מכל האדם אשר על פני האדמה, שהענוה דמשה (משה אמת ותורתו אמת) היתה במיוחד בקשר לדרא דעקבתא דמשיחא, בראותו את המס”נ שלהם בקיום התומ”צ בענין אל יתבייש מפני המלעיגים וכו’ וכיו”ב.”
July 19, 2023 10:19 am at 10:19 am #2209529DaMosheParticipantWhy is it so hard to think that the Melech haMashiach will teach Torah to everyone, even those who are greater than anyone around today? (That, of course, assumes that techiyas hameisim will occur at the same time as Mashiach’s arrival – I believe most do not hold that way.)
When I was in yeshiva, if a guy would be giving a chaburah, very often his Rebbe would come to hear it. When my son says a dvar Torah he learned in yeshiva, I love hearing it, even though most of the time, I’ve heard it before, and the level is far below where I am.
There are plenty of major gedolim who will listen to someone else give a shiur, even though they’re on higher levels. Learning Torah is not just about learning new things, it’s about the effort put into it. So yes, I could understand why even Moshe Rabbeinu would sit, and enjoy a shiur from someone who is alive today. It’s Torah, and nothing else really matters.I love this post, thank you
July 19, 2023 10:24 am at 10:24 am #2209506SomedayParticipant@Menachem Shmei
Thank you.
Where is that quote, or the original source from the Alter Rebbe z”l?July 19, 2023 10:25 am at 10:25 am #2209538yankel berelParticipantWHERE IS THAT NEW MINHAG COMING FROM – SOMETHING OUR FOREFATHERS NEVER KNEW – TO ASK A TSADIK WHERE ONES PARNASAH IS COMING FROM ? THE TSADIK DOESNT KNOW THAT ! LIKE HE DOES NOT KNOW WHO MASHIACH IS , HE ALSO DOES NOT KNOW WHERE A MANS PARNASAH WILL COME FROM AS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE ONE OF THE SEVEN THING WHICH ARE MECHUSIN MIBNE ADAM ! THE ONLY TACHLIT OF GOING TO A TSADIK IS ONLY IN ORDER TO HEAR, WHERE AND HOW THE PETITIONER CAN IMPROVE IN HIS AVODAT HASHEM …..
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Sounds quite MITNAGDISH , no ?
As mentioned in previous post – this is written by the founder of Habad Hasidut !
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Habad hasidim are not taken aback by this . Because if their Rebbe is greater than Moshe Rabenu , why should he not be greater than the Baal Hatanya ?
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So the lesson to be learnt is – Absolute futility to bring proof or debate a Habad Hasid on theology . simply because their rebbe [in their own eyes] is greater than any source which could be used to prove or disprove his shita.
Debating them is an exercise in futility.
We should love them , respect them , but not debate them .July 19, 2023 11:35 am at 11:35 am #2209567AviraDeArahParticipantDa, very well said.
I would add though that chazal say that the malachim will ask yidden to explain Torah to them; it gets complicated how to understand things like rebbe Akiva’s drashos on tagin, or Moshe rabbeinu seemingly not being able to understand shiur from an amorah(or tanna, i forgot). Most say that it’s not information that moshe didn’t know, but rather the manifestation of it, the way it’s explained was different in those doros,and likewise there will be a different bechinah when moshiach comes.
Yankel, the baal hatanya wrote in one of his later igros to allow chasidim to come for help in parnosa because they pushed for it very much.
July 19, 2023 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #2209651DaMosheParticipantTo whichever mod made the comment on my post, thank you for the kind words.
Avira, IIRC, it was R’ Akiva’s shiur on the tagin that Moshe couldn’t understand, and he was upset by it. Then someone asked R’ Akiva where these ideas came from, and he said it was from Moshe m’Sinai, and then Moshe felt better about it.Having people explain Torah to Malachim is easy to understand, because Torah lo bashamayim hi. In Shamayim they don’t necessarily know what the meaning behind a Gemara is, because that meaning is defined here. It’s up to us to decide what the meaning is.
July 19, 2023 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2209724AviraDeArahParticipantDa, i should clarify: my point about malachim learning from people is that it was said regarding yemos hamoshiach, which implies that until that point, that wouldn’t have been the case. And harayah, a malaach taught the mechaber..also, initially the malachim did have the Torah, and thought it too lofty to be given to people, so it seems that they understood it just fine…as for laav bashomayim, that refers to how we pasken, so yes, malachim cannot pasken for us, nor can nissim, etc…
But the fact that malachim will come to us during yemos hamoshiach and not previously, together with the fact that they initially understood Torah, implies that the level of Torah knowledge in that time will be greater than before.
But that doesn’t mean we’re going to be bigger than the previous generations; im guessing we’ll be given that madrega as a matanah, or schar for our efforts in learning….but that’s just a theory.
July 19, 2023 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #2209741sechel83Participant@someday: my point was to make you think, its a simple answer once you understand the sugya – likutai sichos vol 27 bichukosai. rav yerucham, mamash amazing chizuk vort but docent answer the question.
@american yeshivish kabala and chassidus are not the same. toras moshiach is not kabala its chassidus. you can argue if you want, im just pointing out what shitas hachassidus is. (and musar has nothing to do with chassidus, furthest thing from it)July 20, 2023 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #2209820yankel berelParticipant@avira
which sefer – what page ?
it does not negate what I quoted re name of mashiachJuly 20, 2023 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #2209843Menachem ShmeiParticipant>>>Where is that quote, or the original source from the Alter Rebbe z”l?
The quote is from a maamar of the Rebbe (סה”מ מלוקט ח”ד ע’ 58), the Rebbe brings it quite often.
These are the sources in the footnote there:
ראה תו”א שמות נב, ב. תו”ח שם סד, ב. סד”ה ויאמר משה עטר”ת. סה”מ תרפ”ד ס”ע ב ואילץ קונטרסים ח”א נג, א ואילך….I checked in the source from Torah Ohr (Alter Rebbe) and didn’t see it so clearly (mostly kabbalistic terminology). It is more clear from the later Rabbeim, beginning with the Mitteler Rebbe in Toras Chayim (referenced above).
Here is the quote from the Rebbe Rashab (סה”מ עטר”ת ע’ תסד):
וזהו שנאמר גבי משה והאיש משה עניו מאד מכל אדם כו’ כי משה ראה . . שיהי’ דור בעקבות משיחא שלא יהי’ בהם השגה אלקית . . יהי’ כמה מניעות ועיכובים בגוף ונפש וריבוי העלמות והסתירים ויעמדו נגד כל מונע ויקיימו המצות במס”נ ובדרך נסיון . . הי’ בתכלית השפלות בעצמו מפני היתרון הזה שהם גדולים הרבה ממנו.July 20, 2023 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #2209895DaMosheParticipantsechel, I’m wondering, as per the question you asked earlier about Mashiach teaching Torah to Moshe Rabbeinu – you apparently view that as a proof that Mashiach must come from the dead, because you believe someone can’t teach Torah to someone else who is on a higher level than him.
Do you believe that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was greater than Moshe Rabbeinu was?July 20, 2023 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #2210001sechel83Participant@damoshe, my point is to make you think, if you have complaints about how moshiach can come from the dead, i ask back this question, time for these antagonist to open a gemarah sanhedrin, rambam hilchos melachim, hilchos teshuvah, etc. (and learn the rebbe’s sichos on moshiach, because simply he the only one who learned and spoke about these sugyos so much, check out the sefer dvar malchus)
July 20, 2023 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #2210015AviraDeArahParticipantYankel, it’s in the compilation of his igros. I can’t find it at the moment
July 21, 2023 9:37 am at 9:37 am #2210045Menachem ShmeiParticipant>>>why would moshiach be someone who is alive? he will teach torah to moshe rabainu and the avos, who alive today is eligible for that?
I don’t understand this point.
You understand how Moshe will rise from the dead, and even how Moshiach will be someone who rose from the dead, yet you can’t comprehend Hashem giving a living person the wisdom to teach Moshe Rabbeinu?Anyway, it’s clear in Torah that the תורתו של משיח will be divinely revealed to him, which explains how he will teach Torah to Moshe.
Sources:
1. The medrash says in ויקרא רבה (based on a posuk in Yeshaya) that a new Torah will come forth from Hashem in Yemos Hamoshiach, and in ילקוט שמעוני it explains that Hashem will give this Torah through Melech Hamoshiach.
2. The Rambam writes about Moshiach teaching Torah: בעל חכמה יהיה יתר משלמה ונביא גדול הוא קרוב למשה רבנו ולפיכך ילמד כל העם – Moshiach will be very wise and a great novi, and THEREFORE he will teach the nation.
This implies that Moshiach will teach Torah not just with his wisdom but also with the power of nevua.(ראה קונטרס תורה חדשה מאתי תצא תנש”א)
July 21, 2023 9:40 am at 9:40 am #2210073DaMosheParticipantsechel, learn basic Rashi on the Gemara in Sanhedrin. He says that the Gemara doesn’t mean Mashiach can come from the dead, it means if you think Mashiach already came.
The Rambam, in Melachim 11:3, says that Mashiach will arrive in a natural way, without miracles, similar to Bar Kochba. He further says that Mashiach will not perform any miracles, and will not resurrect the dead.July 23, 2023 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #2210362sechel83Participantmy point is that people think that a big gadol who knows alot of lamdus is likely to be moshiach, well
the rambam says that only halachos of torah will be forever, (not shaklah vitarya, (questions come from a concealment on g-dliness, and kelipa, when moshiach comes, there will be no more kelipa, or concealments on g-dliness))
my point it that some people dont begin to understand what moshiach is!July 27, 2023 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #2211528yankel berelParticipantOur Greatgrandfathers & mothers were not busy with “candidates” for Mashiach . And nor should we.
Rambam wasnt busy with it . Bet Yosef was not . Rama was not . Baal HaTanya was not . and Ben Ish Chai was not either .
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Cf Tanya ,were he says [free translation ]
.
WHERE IS THAT NEW MINHAG COMING FROM – SOMETHING OUR FOREFATHERS NEVER KNEW – TO ASK A TSADIK WHERE ONES PARNASAH IS COMING FROM ? THE TSADIK DOESNT KNOW THAT ! LIKE HE DOES NOT KNOW WHO MASHIACH IS , HE ALSO DOES NOT KNOW WHERE A MANS PARNASAH WILL COME FROM AS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE ONE OF THE SEVEN THING WHICH ARE MECHUSIN MIBNE ADAM ! THE ONLY TACHLIT OF GOING TO A TSADIK IS ONLY IN ORDER TO HEAR, WHERE AND HOW THE PETITIONER CAN IMPROVE IN HIS AVODAT HASHEM …..
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Clear from Tanyas words that all of this is mere speculation , non productive and frowned upon .
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Again – this thread is another ploy in furthering the ‘candidacy’ of someone whose followers have a vested interest of promoting .July 27, 2023 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #2211557qwerty613ParticipantThe only certainty is that if he’s not the Rebbe, Chabad won’t accept him.
July 27, 2023 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #2211581Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantSo, would Chabad hold a veto over Hashem’s decision and even, Ch’V, delay a non-Chabad Moschiach?
What if, Ch’V there is another group who only accepts Moschiach from their dynasty – will the world be stuck until they climb down?
July 31, 2023 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #2212353sechel83Participantthere is actually a story that one of the rebbes said moshiach with be a misnaged because if he is a chosid, the misnagdim wont follow him.
i would definatlly accept the biggest misnaged as moshiach as long as he does what the rambam says moshiach will do. my point is only that al pi chassidus there is a deeper meaning in moshiach, and gemarah and lamdus dosent have anything to do with it, so if hashem desides obviously he can send who he chooses to be moshiach and teach chassidus (see keser shem tov siman 1, and many other places)July 31, 2023 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #2212393n0mesorahParticipant… my point is only that al pi chassidus there is a deeper meaning in moshiach, and gemara and lomdus has everything to do with it ….
Fixed it for you.
I used to hope that it was obvious that Hashem can always do what he chooses, but somehow people have all kinds of reasons not to see that.
You seem to have Chassidus as seperate from the rest of Torah. You are making a big mistake and that is why you struggle with the issues in these threads. If Chassidus does not correlate to the rest of Torah, what gives it authenticity and value?
July 31, 2023 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #2212450qwerty613ParticipantTo Seichel83
“I will definitely accept the biggest Misnaged as Moshiach if he does all the things that Rambam says Moshiach will do.” The Diyuk is that you and your fellow Lubavichers have already accepted the Rebbe as Moshiach even though he hasn’t done anything that Rambam said he would do.
July 31, 2023 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #2212451sechel83Participant@no mesorah. see tanya אגרת הקדשׁ כו
dont know how to figured that, see קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות
(if chassidus is musar of kabala, i might agree with you, but i learned more than a few pages and realized it has nothing to do with either)August 22, 2023 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #2218458CSParticipantJust saying that no one has to worry about a Chabad veto over moshiach (if there ever was such a thing.)
It’s much easier for any Chabad person to accept someone else endorsed by Rabbanim/ gedolim worldwide (The logical thing to do) than to stubbornly insist the Rebbe must be moshiach (which is Emuna based more than logic based.) Whoever builds the Beis HaMikdash will be accepted by everyone (duh I should hope)
August 28, 2023 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #2220488qwerty613ParticipantTo CS
I would hope you’re right but I highly doubt it. The belief that the Rebbe is Moshiach is deeply ingrained and rarely does logic supersede emotion. Let me give you an illustration. Several months ago I was arguing on another site with a Lubavitcher who was convinced that the Rebbe was Moshiach. I told him that the Chofetz Chaim Paskened that Moshiach won’t come from the dead. At first, he fought me on this point but he ultimately conceded that I was right. Did he then admit that the Rebbe can’t be Moshiach? Of course not. Instead he said the following, “The Rebbe became Moshiach while he was still alive and so it doesn’t contradict Chofetz Chaim and he’ll return to finish the job.” Please don’t try to sell me on the notion that logic will prevail in Crown Heights.
August 28, 2023 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #2220544CSParticipantQwerty I’ve really delved into this topic and learned many mekoros on it. When I say Emuna vs logic, because ultimately is Emuna based it doesn’t matter what you say if it contradicts The Rebbe . However, If Moshiach comes and it’s apparent we misunderstood The Rebbe, or it played out differently than expected, nobody would actually care if The Rebbe was or wasn’t physically Moshiach (would you like to hear my dream of Moshiach)
And it wouldn’t make him less great in our eyes (the same way Moshe Rabbeinu won’t be any less great when Moshiach comes)August 28, 2023 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #2220546CSParticipantOn that note- have you heard of The Rebbe being alive today? Yah I looked into that one too
August 28, 2023 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #2220594Rabbi TrollParticipantI’m shocked that nobody brought up the Yenukah!
August 28, 2023 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #2220579yechiellParticipantWho is the Moshiach? The MAGA crowd, which, unfortunately, includes too many frum Jews, knows the answer: Donald Trump, the Shlump, of course.
No doubts in their twisted minds – soooooooo sad !August 28, 2023 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #2220595qwerty613ParticipantTo CS
Yes I’d like to hear your spin on it. Rational people consider someone alive or dead based on the time honored tradition of vital signs. Of course Lubavichers who are steeped in Kabbalah don’t follow such antiquated methods and therefore they can convince themselves that the Rebbe is still alive. Of course if we follow that logic then a whole lot of other people are also alive. If you want to continue living in your fantasy world I’m not going to try to stop you. It’s a free country.
August 28, 2023 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #2220647CSParticipantQwerty- I never heard of it growing up and found out that there was such a thing when non Lubavitcher asked me about it. Of course I told them what I thought it meant- that The Rebbe is alive and well in the sense that he is treated as Rebbe and listened to even now.
But I was wondering if there was more to it, so I asked my very knowledgeable and normal Moshiach teacher in high school about it. Ended up quite fascinating
August 28, 2023 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #2220649CSParticipantBut not sure I’m inclined to share with you that fascinating class, which I was only privy to because I asked what I found out about from non Lubavitchers, because much of the crowd here seems out to get us, and frame everything negatively
August 28, 2023 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #2220657qwerty613ParticipantTo CS
So your Moshiach Rebbe explained to you how the Rebbe is still alive but you can’t tell anyone what he said because those snags are so mean spirited. In any case I see that you had a Rebbe whose job it was to convince you that the Rebbe was Moshiach. Was that class before or after the one in which they taugjt you tjay the Rebbe is god?August 28, 2023 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #2220659CSParticipantYou know what? It’s probably not right to leave you hanging. So I’ll post what I know in short- and people can look up the sources themselves for an in depth analysis if desired
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