The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!)

To sechel83

After the Hamas attack I stated that I wanted a moratorium from these disputes. Let me make another offer. You can continue to believe that the Rebbe will come back from the dead and save every Jew. I’ll wait to see who Hashem sends as Moshiach.

The gemara questions in Perek Chelek and lives it in a teika. Why create an unnecessary miracle? Except for Hilel who says that there will be no time between techies hamesim and the time of meshiach We don’t pasken like Hilel. Rav Abarbanel discusses it in his sefer Yeshuas Medhicho.

Potato, klal yisroel as a whole rejects the notion that the dead Lubavitche rebbe is moshiach, so that’s that. Let’s see him take you Lubavitche out of gulas first, then you can argue that he’s the moshiach. The bigger issue is that he is an idol that you worship. You pray to him, you believe he’s physically alive, you say he never made mistakes, that he’s everywhere and that he runs the world. This is avoideh zura mamesh.

Potato, where does the Vilna Gaon come into the picture?

So you don’t believe that the Rebbe is physically alive?
You dont believe the Lubavitche rabbis who say the Rebbe never made mistakes, that he’s all over and that you can pray to him wherever you are?
You dont believe that the Rebbe runs the world? Do you condemn Cunin for saying that the Rebbe runs the world?

the vilna gaon was fed lies by the misnagdim, thats why he made a cherem against chassidim, he considered chassidim ovdai avoda zara, a cult, etc (all the things claimed against chabad today)
these misnagdim said hallel (some of them) the day the baal hatanya was put in jail – they thought he would never get out
the vilna gaon accepted edus from people he trusted, it wasn’t really his fault.

Potato and sechel, instead of answering my questions about your beliefs about the Lubavitche Rebbe you claim lies are being fed and people are taught to hate… B’kitzer, you think that by skirting the questions instead of being honest, and using the words “wild allegations, sinas chinum and machloikes” you can scare people off from shedding light onto your avoda zora worship. The videos and articles from Lubavitche “rabbis” are there and you ignore it. The questions are put forth and you ignore it. You think people are blind? You think you can hide under the cover of the words “sinas chinum and machloikes”?

Mashiach cannot be min hameitim because of the following simple reason.

1] habad is never wrong & whenever there is a source contradicting what they say , there is a way out. There HAS to be one.
2] habad with all its mashpi’im , rabanim, thinkers, ovdim, maskilim, rashei yeshiva, mothers , temimim,mekuravim, mekarvim , shluhim, adherents and hasidim ALL OF THEM , without fail, were saying pre 3 tamuz that their rebbi cannot die because there is a nevua that their rebbi is mashiach.
3] nevua letovah cant be batel.

So how could habad entertain the thought that mashiach comes from the meitim?

Sechel > vilna gaon was fed lies by the misnagdim, thats why he made a cherem against chassidim,

could you tell us whose opinion this is? Most chassidim and misnagdim made peace by now, and I think the prevailing view is that Gaon’s position against excesses helped Chassidim to become a better movement. I think Alter Rebbe also contributed to that process.

@gobrit
Its not such a nonchalant affair.
This is ikarei emuna.
At least thats what all of habad clearly said for quite a number of years . [pre 1994]
He CANNOT die because this is ikarei emuna.

Ikarei emuna is heavy stuff .
Its the stuff, countless of our forefatehers were burnt alive for.
Lost their houses , their parnassah and their children.

You don’t play around with ikarei emuna.

They are not mere socks, to be changed the next day.

gobrit, the argument at this point is not so much if the Rebbe is moshiach. If only the moshiach aspect would be the case no would care this much. The bigger issue is the worship of their rebbe. Would you be OK with Christian communities living amongst us, dressed as Chareidim, feeling like they are Chareidim, mingling with us? Would their hechsheirim be accepted as kosher? Would people buy from their sofrim? Would they daven in their sohuls? The early Christians were “frum” Jews, so this scenerio was the reality 2,000 years ago.
The bigger problem is not Chabad meshiachistens insistence that their dead rebbe is moshiach, that is the source of the problem but not the extent of the problem. The bigger problem is that Chabiadinity is not Judaism. It is a seperate religion of kofrim who believe the Rebbe runs the world, the Rebbe is everywhere, that one should pray to him, that he knows everything, that he never made mistakes and thar he is alive in a physical sense. The is a”z mamesh. That we have people from this religion giving hechsheirim and providing food, having minyanim all over the world where Jewish travelers daven and provide services and mingling with us is a huge, huge problem as well as a chillul shem shomayim.

Potato conveniently ignores the well documented habad ikarei emuna stand which loudly proclaimed that their mashiach [sheker] COULD NOT die because it was promised by [false] nevua that their “leader/navi/god/yoets/university graduate/ge’an hage’onim/tsadiq yesod olam/nasi hador” is mashiach.
That [supposedly] was a nevua amitit which CANNOT be changed.
That [supposedly] was part ikarei emuna which renders the non believer into a kofer.

No second coming, that was heresy.
No mashiach min hameitim , that was heresy.

To top it all of – just to remind the world of what my very own eyes have seen and what my very own ears have heard, is now being classified by a totally brainwashed and blind follower of this purim charade as nothing less than SIN’AT HINAM !!!

Could not make it up even if I wanted …

Philosopher would be attacking chareidim if he saw a negative documentary portraying chareidim as a devilish cult with real footage of actual chareidim (there are many such documentaries).

@shmei
Very important to remember
Philosopher is not attacking Habad PEOPLE .
He is questioning habad PRETSEL THEOLOGY.

Antisemites attack the JEWISH PEOPLE.
Huge difference.
.

Sechel, I’m glad to hear you dont believe in that. Im wondering what percentage of Chabad doee believe in that ideology. You cannot deny this about Chabad when I watched many videos of Chabad rabbis saying these things. I have posted 4 videos from Chabad rabbis saying these things about the the rebbe, that he runs the world, that he is physically alive, etc, etc and a video of Lubavitche praying to Rebbe’s chair, claiming he’s not feeling well 30 years after his death, calling him up for an aliyeh, etc. 2 of these videos were posted on the other thread, another one was not posted at all and the 4th one was deleted by the mods. But these are the facts that I see of what Chabad rabbis teach Chabad Chassidim and some of Chabad’s Chassidim own behavior.

Potato, no not only Chabad links are allowed. I posted on another thread a link to Rabbi Avigdor Miller’s shmuess on voting in the Israeli elections and the mods posted it.