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I’ve personally seen Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky pressure bochurim to drink more wine, when he felt they were not sufficiently drunk
hello99: That’s interesting. I don’t know what to make of it.
It could be, however, that he knew that those particular bachurim would be mature about it, and not do anything assur. I don’t know. But it seems from your post that you have connections with him. So if you want to find out what he really holds, I suggest you ask him.
I agree with OVKTD about smoking. There is no reason people should suddenly start publicly smoking on Purim. If you want to extend wine to whiskey, etc that is one thing (although I don’t agree with that either) but smoking is inexcusable
ovktd: What’s so hard to make of it? It’s a mitzvah for them to get drunk and Rav Shmuel was merely encouraging them to do a mitzvah.
Getting drunk “ad dlo yoda” is the basic and poshut pshat of the mitzvah on Purim. Are there shittos that hold you don’t have to? Sure, and I won’t hold it against anyone who has a rov that allows him not to get stone drunk and he doesn’t. I won’t even accuse such person of cherry picking his way out of his chiyuv to get drunk. But getting completely drunk is the basic understanding of the mitzvah and what many (if not most) prominent gedolei poskim hold must be done.
The wine-only thing is a big Dochek. The Gemara and Meforshim explain the idea of drinking, to be Besimcha. The Svara that the Ness happened with wine is borrowed from Chanuka, where it is not even Halacha. Where do you find a hint in Chazal that we drink because Haman did? How about fasting because the Yidden did? Yes, we actually do, but it is a Minhag, that is not mentioned in the Gemara, surely not as Chayav. It sounds to me that those coming out against drinking went to find any Shitta they can bring along to help the cause. If Rashi explains than Libesumi means to drink wine, that is no reason to exclude wiskey. You do realize that it wasn’t quite invented yet, either.
Tomche said: “ovktd: What’s so hard to make of it? It’s a mitzvah for them to get drunk and Rav Shmuel was merely encouraging them to do a mitzvah.”
I don’t know what to make of it, because Rav Shmuel said it’s ossur to get drunk on Purim. That being what he said, I don’t understand why he would advise some bochurim to get more drunk. Unless, of course, he knew that they were exceptionally mature, and they wouldn’t do anything bad while drunk.
Tomche: Ad d’lo yada refers to the brain, not the liver. Once someone is drunk, his sober friends should stop him before he gets alcohol poisoning.
@Oy vey
Did rav shmuel say its only assur for SOME people to get drunk or did he say its assur to get drunk.
Its either a kasha on him or a kasha on you.
I’ll pick the kasha on you and answer that you are wrong and its not assur to get drunk
Itche, that is a great point and very cute. Actually the Gemara points to the fact that you have to watch out from dangerous drinking. Lav Kol Yoma Israchish Nisa.
OVKTD, it may be that when he said Assur, he was referring to giving Bachurim that chanced into your house. You have know idea how much they already had, what they had, and who’s driving.
Actually, I clearly remember one bachur who was a bit of a trouble maker being encouraged to drink at Rav Shmuel’s house. After plying him with drinks, the Rosh Yeshiva asked “are you drunk, really drunk?” When the bachur replied in the positive, Rav Shmuel asked him “What is the worst thing you’ve done since coming to Yeshiva?”. He answered “Rebbe, I’m drunk, but not THAT drunk!”
Also, a friend of mine asked Rav Shmuel if whiskey is acceptable for the chiuv of getting drunk, and Rav Shmuel answered in the affirmative.
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