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Is it just me, or do other people think that 90% of the new fast songs that come out aren’t good. They have a fast beat, but the errors have no connection to the tune, and the whole thing feels fake. Slow, hartzig songs generally seem much better. I think they you can fake happiness, but you can’t fake real hergesh. I have nothing against happy music, I just don’t sense any depth or meaning in most modern offerings.
modified in accordance with Halacha 🙂
Fast songs are not supposed to be deep and meaningful (in my opinion. Maybe I’m too young 🙂 ) Fast songs are supposed to be jumpy and fun. If you want depth and meaning, listen to slow songs…
This is what happens when MBD retires.
Joseph (or is it still Lior?!) – how are MBD’s fast songs deep and meaningful?
Nothing against MBD – just I can’t see how any fast songs (no matter whose they are) have depth…..
wisdom comes with age
I disagree. I would consider an old song “Daagah Minayin” to be a heartfelt FAST song. Whenever I heard it, I had to dance around. Fortunately I was alone in my house most of the time.
Mod – I’m sticking out my tongue at you (maturity comes with age, too.)!
Oomis – lol! I love daaga minayin but I don’t see how it is heartfelt. Many songs make me want to dance but I don’t consider any of them heartfelt….I just think they have a great beat and tune.
I don’t know why, but I find that if you want to express an idea that is very deep, or very personal, you wouldn’t do it in a fast song. I have only ever found slow songs to be really moving – not davka sad songs, but emotional songs.
Nothing against MBD – just I can’t see how any fast songs (no matter whose they are) have depth…..
You gotta listen to some Carlebach.
cij: i find toda by benny friedman a heartfelt fast song. (and im also young) every time i hear it, im like “thank you HAshem!!”
Yesh Lanu Hashem Echad is also a very fast paced heartfelt song.
Jewish music tends to follow the styles of non-Jewish music. Just as that which was popular 40 years ago was heavily influenced by American folk-rock, styles today are influenced by whatgever those young people are listening to, and the music 100 years ago resembled the goyhish music of the day (note the lingering similarities in many Ashkenazi styles of hazanus to the styles of operatic singing – indeed some hazanim back in the 20th century who went off the derekh became opera singers).
Given the tremendous variety of musical styles, one can find some they enjoy.
While one might object to copying styles from the goyim, we’ve been doing so for 2000 years so it seems that doing so is an established minhag.
cozimjewish:
I have an experiment for you to do. Take a slow song which you consider deep, meaningful, and heartfelt, and play it on your keyboard with double the tempo.
(I’m assuming that despite http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/what-makes-jewish-music-jewish/page/2#post-550736
you still play keyboard based on http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/random-facts-1/page/2#post-538349 )
Let me know if converting the slow song into a fast song divested it of its depth, meaning, and heartfeltness.
For that matter, anyone else can do the experiment also and submit the results.
Yesh Lanu Hashem Echad is also a very fast paced heartfelt song.
Showjoe – well I guess different songs speak to different people then. 🙂 I love toda just don’t find it particularly deep. Chanale has a gorgeous song thanking Hashem – and it’s slow. I find it much more moving (if you’re a boy, though, you wouldn’t know it)
PAA – Blechhhh. I REFUSE to play keyboard!! (Don’t get me started on the subject.) Don’t really understand how you came to the assumption that I play keyboard, but I definitely don’t. In any case, I have tried that with the piano (just playing a song faster), and I actually do find it less moving….does that even make sense??
Yayin – Are his fast songs heartfelt, too? I find his fast songs really funny – but heartfelt? Although, maybe they are, just in a different way to his slow songs? Could be…
oomis – what song is that? Did you mean Yesh Tikva? Or another song?
Don’t get me started on the subject.
Obviously this means that you really do want me to get you started. So tell us – why do you refuse to play keyboard?
In any case, I have tried that with the piano (just playing a song faster), and I actually do find it less moving….does that even make sense??
It’s an experiment, so I can’t really determine whether it makes sense or not.
Maybe you just can’t keep up with the fast songs. A good fast song is just as heartfelt, but it expresses emotions different to what a slow song expresses.
PAA:
“Obviously this means that you really do want me to get you started.”
No it doesn’t.
Rebyidd – true. OK. I hear you
Maybe I’ll try to analyze this more later, but for now, here’s a way
to try PAA’s experiment without having to play an instrument:
Use VLC Media Player (or Windows Media Player?) to play such a song
at double speed (it compensates so that it won’t be pitched up).
This is a conversation we can have any time past, present, or future. The vast majority of songs are what I’d call fun songs, songs that aren’t meant to and won’t pass the test of time. When we think of old songs, we primarily think of the good ones because the bad ones have mostly been forgotten. Even today’s songs most will eventually be forgotten and a few quality ones will be remembered for future generations to talk of the good songs of the 2010s.
“When we think of old songs, we primarily think of the good ones because the bad ones have mostly been forgotten.”
Whether a song is “good” or “bad” is entirely an opinion.
Frum music is going through more of a renaissance than a demise. Youtube is full of new songs, music videos, and clips from simchas, which makes it possible to enjoy much more of the Jewish music “world” than was previously possible, when all you could do was buy CDs and go to concerts.
Some of my favorites:
Freilach Orchestra – they’ve been getting better and better as they matured as musicians. Nachman Dreier (guitar) and Avrumi Schreiber (drums) are particularly good.
Malchus Choir: a Chassidishe choir – I know nothing about them but it appears they are from Israel. Check out their songs, “Zechor” (don’t know where it’s from) and “Beshoh”, which is a cover of Shwekey.
There are a bunch of great clips of Motti Steinmetz singing classic yiddish and chazzonish songs with various men’s choirs.
Lots of “highlights” from weddings with Shloime Daskal, Sruly Werdyger (there’s a great clip of Sruly Werdyger and the Shira Choir with Yanky Briskman (one man band) and Shloimy Cohen (saxophone – I think he played a lot with Evenal); if you search -Yisroel Werdyger second dance- it should come up.
And the above is just my taste – I’ve watched the videos I mentioned dozens of times. There are also a ton of Yehuda Green, Eitan Katz, etc. type videos from live kumzitzes etc. or more traditional chassidish singers at weddings, chuppas, events, etc.
Jewish music is something that people like to kvetch about for some reason. Generally, it’s people who like Carlebach forcing themselves to listen to MBD so that they can rant about it self-righteously. But in the internet age, it’s crazy for someone with a modem to claim that “modern offerings” are worse somehow than what came before.
If we all agree a song is bad we can all call it bad.
rebyidd – you’ll never get EVERYONE to agree that a song is bad, or good
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