The Chofetz Chaim mesorah is great

Chofetz Chaim yeshiva in Brooklyn requires white. Brooklyn is held to a higher standard.

“That’s why they need white shirts.”

You’re saying that white is a higher level.

As far as the mesorah to wear blue, I think that goes all the way back to Korach.

Sadly, our generation has adopted the standard that the clothes make the man. For anyone that has studied Torah, there are countless references to the contrary.

Chassidus does give ample basis to the influence of chitzoniyus on pnimiyus. However, to be defined by the choice of clothing is beyond anything Torah recommends. רחמנא ליבא בעי is a clear reference to the ultimate being the internal. The cloak of honor, when incongruent with the internal is what was described by Shlomo Hamelech – נזם זהב באף חזיר.

The dress codes in yeshivos may be based on a good idea, but they have achieved a momentum of their own, and no longer are directed at the growth of the talmid. Just visit the photos of many of today’s Gedolei Yisroel as they dressed in Europe as talmidim in yeshivos there. If a talmid today wore those clothes, he would be expelled on sight. Can someone show me what changed? Sure, the streets are not the same, and our generation has its share of contemporary nisyonos. Where are the budding Gedolei Yisroel that emerge from this dress code controlled generation? Will they become great because of their dedication to Torah and Avodas Hashem, or will they attribute their greatness to having worn a white shirt from age 13?

I am anxious to hear others’ thoughts on this.

Show me a serious Ben Torah in colored shirts no Mayer where they live

I know plenty of serious Bnei Torah who wear colored shirts. And there is a mayor where they live. I even know one that is named Mayer.

I can’t see all the words so Mayer was instead of matter

iac: 1. That was one of the considerations. What were the other considerations? 2. Why was there a “huge” disagreement? 3. Why did the white side win the argument?

“1. I don’t know the other considerations. This is the one I was told about.
2. The opinion of the two leading members of the YTY Hanhallah were split with one wanting to stay with the “colored shirts” and the other wanting the change. That’s why they went to Rabbi Harris.
3. Ask Rabbi Harris. He made the decision.”

I dont believe the above is factually accurate.

1. The only consideration was that being a “colored shirt” yeshiva in Brooklyn was giving people the impression that it wasn’t a serious place and they were therefore not attracting the “better” boys.
2. They were all in agreement that the white shirt policy was necessary, but didn’t want to institute it without first getting it “approved” by the Hanhallah in Queens. The Rosh HaYeshiva zt”l never stressed white shirts, so they wanted to speak it over.
3. The Queens Roshei Yeshiva told them that they weren’t so excited about the idea, but weren’t going to stop them if they felt it was necessary for the continued success of the Yeshiva.

I personally know for fact that the buchrim that come out of THE REAL CHOFETZ CHAIM YISHEVAS have
60000% better midos then any other yeshiva in the world. out of Chofetz Chaim come the greatest DOWN TO EARTH SHTIEGERS on the ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM

P.S. Colored shirts are perfectly permited!!

“And why do you think the better boys felt discouraged from enrolling in a Yeshiva with colored shirts?”

Joseph,

Simple. Chofetz Chaim has an unmatched eighty-five year track record of producing Rabbonim, Roshei Yeshivos, Talmedei Chachamim, Mechanchim, Yorei Shamayim and Manhigim, despite the fact that they never mandated white shirts. However, too many people in Brooklyn (and other places) judge others only by the color of their shirt instead of the content of their character, so Rabbi Harris had to reluctantly make an exception for that specific location.

Nice attempt at trolling.

Probably because people care more about looks than learning.

I’m confused, it’s not like they wear davka blue shirts at Chofetz Chaim right? Most of the guys are still wearing white shirts I assume. They just allow other shirt colors?

Even by the pro-white-shirt argument, allowing a diversity in shirt color would just allow you to gauge the seriousness of a given bochur. If you make them wear white shirts, how can you tell who the REAL white shirters are, and who are just doing it for the dress code?

I cannot speak for the USA, but I do know white shirts are of a great deal of importance in many places in Israel, it’s a part of society. If you live in Yerushalayim you have no way of being accepted into any school, in a colored shirt.

Ok, I never said I wanted to spefically live in Yerushalayim. I’m comfortable living in many different areas in Israel as long as thee’s people in the community whom share my hashkafa and values. I’m also looking to marry a bochur who doesn’t have any major issues with the chareidi world. No, you don’t have to agree with every part of it, but someone who understand it’s the bigger picture, is willing to sacrifice, and isn’t looking for fights…

And it’s funny how all the boys I meet that where colored shirts, are either not comfortable with it, not comfortable with people wearing white shirts, and lots of them still carry anger towards those people and the society in general.

So, if you find me someone wearing colored shirts who has worked out his anger issues with society, and knows we can only live in speicifc cities or neighborhoods, I’ll take a look.

I should have stated that my son does not live in the NYC area.

“And it’s funny how all the boys I meet that where colored shirts, are either not comfortable with it, not comfortable with people wearing white shirts, and lots of them still carry anger towards those people and the society in general.”

Shopping,

Most people in the USA aren’t so shallow that they look down on those who wear colored shirts, so it’s not an issue that divides and causes bitterness. Hopefully things will remain that way over here and you should find your zivug over there!

I’m happy reading all this cos I just transferred my 9th grade son from a. Reg yeshiva where for specific reasons he was miserable to a chofetz chaim where he is thriving. And the rebbeim, I can’t even tell you what tsadikim they are. Iyh my son will have excellent middos, love learning and besras has hem be a talmud chacham too

Shopping put it beautifully.

It’s not about looking down on people who wear non-white shirts. I will tell you, behind internet anonymity, that I really don’t think shirt color should matter and I wish it didn’t, but the reality is that it does socially. Nobody so far here has asserted that it matters halachically, so stop pretending we are saying that. Where I learn and where I live, some people wear white shirts and some people wear colored. I wear white, not because I think it’s a halachic issue, but because wearing colored would cause people to associate me with the leftern hemisphere of the community.

Now, pro-colored folks, go ahead and attack me for being mean for not wanting to be associated with the religious left, because we all know that’s what this is really about. That, my friends, was exactly Shopping613’s point.

Neville: On a whole, people do not look down on those who don’t wear white shirts. Most children who attend these yeshivos with the white shirt only policy have fathers who wear colored shirts (including me). When not in school my son’s had their choice. If they wanted colored shirts, fine, white shirts fine. Once a school has a white-shirt only policy then that is what you have to wear to school. If a parent feels that this rule is not good for their son, then by all means please send your son to a yeshiva where he can wear colored shirts.
At least one mesivta (in the 1990’s) that I know of changed because the bochurim asked the hanhallah if they can change to a white shirt policy. 40 years ago when I attended mesivta, we were allowed to wear any colored button down collared shirt. The rabbeim only wore white shirts.
You and “shopping” may think that it is shallow thinking to have this policy……and you may be right. The yeshiva though has every right to set their own rules and policies.

iac: “One of my son’s did attend Mesivta at the main branch in Queens. Today he is in chinuch and only wears white shirts, even on his days off.”

Why does your son only wear white? I thought white was just a mishugas and non-white is just as fine. Why doesn’t your son go to his chinuch job in a blue shirt?

I personally know someone who started in a non chofetz yeshiva, and then switched .to a CC yeshiva There is a reason why today he is a known chofetz Chaim rabbi.

…בְּכָל־עֵ֕ת יִֽהְי֥וּ בְגָדֶ֖יךָ לְבָנִ֑ים

….Anyone know where I can buy white pant, maybe buy a good humor man uniform so I can be dressed in white from head to toe in fulfillment of this passuk?

Shopping:

You are paraphrasing my point precisely. I wear white shirts, and “behave”. I happen to prefer wearing white shirts. However, not for a moment do I believe it defines me. My character, I hope, I can attribute to the input I received through my years on how to be an Oveid Hashem, not the choice of store or manufacturer of my shirts. My preference of apparel is my personal choice, and it does not define me. But then, it really shouldn’t matter, because I am not the one that dictates public policy. I do not impose anything as a “value” on anyone.

There seems to be no question, as you put eloquently, that colors of shirts really mean nothing. It is a gross misfortune, as I have also stated eloquently, that the public finds these trivial things to add to the Taryag mitzvos, and allows these to identify whether someone is “frum” or a “maamin”. And none of us are willing to take the plunge and proclaim that the emperor has no clothes (pun not intended). So we all know it is a stupid policy, but we play along with it, since we do not have a bit of control to stop the madness. I think we both agree on this.

I was thinking that the meforshim on Shulchan Aruch (Be’er Heiteiv, Mishna Berura) bring down in Hilchos Shabbos that the Ari Zal stated that one should wear 4 white garments lekovod Shabbos. If one wears white all week, what is different that indicates kovod Shabbos? Just asking.

TLIK: If your personal preference of attire happened to be a T-Shirt and jeans, that’s what you’d wear as that would be no different than a white shirt and dark pants?

As you can see from my YWN name, I’m delighted to not be a part of the Brooklyn nonsense. And I’m a huge supporter of the CC mesorah. I’ve known so many who have gone through their system, from Mesivta through being some of the leading Rebbeim today, and their sterling middos stands out. They don’t look down on Jews who are different, which is probably why they all excel in Kiruv. The “colored shirts” that you’re all hocking about are hardly bright red. The dress code in the Mesivta specifically states that colored means things like light blue, pale grey, no loud patterns. Brooklyn is just one branch, and the RY had to accommodate the attitude of the potential parent body. By the way, the post “branching” Beis Medrash and Kollel guys tend to wear white shirts anyway, so what’s the big deal here?

I grew up in a Young Israel where the Rav was a musmach of CC and he only wore white shirts. You don’t like the Brooklyn/Lakewood mishegas….fine. Nobody is telling you to like it. I am not turning away potential shidduchim over colored shirts. The key to this discussion is that if a yeshiva has a rule then you follow the rule. For those of us who live in Brooklyn we know the policies and we accept them. I just wonder if the hanhallah in the areas outside of Brooklyn wear colored shirts. If not, why not?