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MDD: Stop comparing this to Pinchas. There are 3 cases of Kanaim Pog’im Bo. This isn’t one of them.
Sam2, go ask a shaila about geting physical to prevent aveiros. I do not have time to bring the mekoros for you. Granted, sometimes, it is not wise. Plenty of fellows here do not think there is ever room for protests.
MDD: You haven’t proven that there is ever room for protests. There are two Halachic concepts that matter here, one called Kanaim Pog’im Bo and one called Matzilin Oso B’nafsho. You have to prove that being physical to protest Aveiros is ever permitted otherwise.
Sam2, I said getting physical, not “horgim oso”.
Why do “the gedolim” have to issue a “statement” about anything? Is there something unclear or ambiguous that needs clarification here from gedolei hador?
Apushtayid said it perfectly. We know these protesters aren’t representing Halachah. Why do we fault the Gedolim for not publicly stating what we already know?
Sam we dont fault them. If the gedolim in question never issued proclamations I dont think anyone would dare say a word here. But they do. I can say unequivocally that Id gladly trade the last 50 kol koreis for one today. Because as this debate shows, the issues are NOT clear to everyone.
I’m waiting to eat breakfast until the gedolim issue a directive as to what I should eat.
Seems like some have had time to issue directives to ban Mishpacha, College and going into the army
But no time to issue for other issues
If they can come out so strongly against internet and other things that anyone with a brain can understand is wrong then they should certainly come out against this. If there ever were a time for Rabbanim to speak up this is it. The issue is that we have 1000s of people who call themselves Chareidim who think the Torah calls for acting like hooligans and spitting cursing and getting violent to promote Tznius. This is a situation where Torah is being perverted by the masses. It has to be made clear unequivocally clear that there is no place in Torah Judaism for their conduct.
What is unclear here that a statement from gedolim is necessary?
MDD: Of course there are cases where you can be physical to prevent Aveiros. However, I am not familiar with any Makor outside of those two that allows for it outside of Beis Din.
I dont know much about any of the Gedolim who people anticipate some sort of statement from, but I feel I am correct when I say that they do not:
Listen to the radio
Read newspapers
Log on to YWN or any other website for news
Join in the “hock” in shul after davening
to be fully aware of what is going on. Someone must make them aware of what is going on. If they are not aware of what is going on, or the extent that something is going on, unless you ascribe some ruach hakodesh to them, how should they be aware of what is happening in the “street” and to comment on it as they see appropriate?
Anyone with more insight into how a kol koreh is formulated, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the Garden of Eden , Adom Harishon told chava, not to TOUCH the tree, which is not what Hashem said, making a chumra and when the snake pushed Chava against the tree nothing happened.
Chazal have said that Adom’s aveirah was making chumras where it doesnt belong.
Today Chumras are being made where they dont belong and can actually be more harmful than good
I heard from RABBIS that such chumras as
Women Cant Drive
Women Cant Vote
Photoshoping of Women including world leaders out of photos
Women in the back of the bus
Are more HARMFUL than good
And if you dont belive me, google Yossi Sarid who posted a piece in Haaretz saying Othodox judaism treats women worse than dogs.
And the Sikirim are jsut following chumras, but some of the are probably mentally ill and dont know the difference between chumra and Halacha they have gone overboard
Yossi Sarids arguments against Gemara are not his original arguments. They can be found on many hate sites and at least one of the arguments used (the brachos) I believe can be traced back to martin luther (you can google these arguments and see where they take you). Recent events are not the source of the hatred in his article, but are likely the cause of him repeating them at this time.
Was Sarid ever exposed in a meaningful way to a yid or yiddishkeit that exemplified diracheha darchei noam?
The best solution? Scoop up these menacing loiterers and send them to re-education camp, with a strong emphasis on midos, and eradicating the us/them thought pathways.
You all have to remember that we are actually talking about only 50 or 60 of these thugs.
They do not need their own town – unless you want to consider a section of a prison as their own town.
It is a terrible pity that all chareidim are being smeared because of a small group of nuts.
What is the saddest part is that RELIGIOUS KIDS, can’t differentiate between the average, normal chareidi and this group of meshuga’im, (because they dress the same) and it is causing these frum kids to think ALL chareidim are scary and crazy.
What a terrible chilul HaSh-m!!!
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