The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors

Non Political:
Of course they are brought liHalacha, as stated. Your laziness to look at VaYoel Moshe or elsewhere is not an excuse for insinuating that others are making things up.

See this post here, on these very boards, for example: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/refuting-the-three-oaths-gimel-shevuot#post-2266950

Chaim:
No, you did not do your job. You did not take the numerous quoted sefarim and ask Rizhin how their alleged mesorah works with or argues with that. The “flip side” is not going to Satmar to ask about your stories about Rizhin; that’s beyond silly. Have Rizhin publish a teshuva that their alleged mesorah disagrees with all the quoted sefarim here and elsewhere including but not limited to Rav Elchonon, the Chazon Ish, the Brisker Rav, the Gerrer Rebbe and all the rest. You can’t, of course.

ZSK:
It wasn’t an emotional issue; I (seemingly incorrectly) thought that if I pointed out the obvious fallacies in each of those “arguments” that even Zionists would understand that they were being fooled by their idol. I guess I was wrong about that.

No, you don’t have any “mesorah” for Zionism, because there is no such thing. Nobody claimed to be following his rabbeim in promoting Zionism. In fact, Rabbi Dr. Soloveitchik acknowledged that he was breaking from his (rather strong anti-Zionist) mesorah in doing so, and the gedolim did not agree.

My response to Avi K’s nonsense remains, it is your “facts” that are wrong, and you are the one ignoring the facts presented in my perfectly valid IMHO response about. But since you’re so smart, why don’t you take the original sources, including the Satmar Rav (can’t mention his name to Zionists, I know) and Rav Elchonon and all the rest, and ask a talmid chacham to reconcile your alleged mesorah with the plain sourced halachos that they present, even without their own opinions.

Regarding Rabbi Dr. Soloveitchik’s “six knocks” nonsense, I referenced a printed source in which you could see why it is nonsense. Again, you chose to ignore that.

The answer is, as published by the Brisker Rav and signed off by both the Gerrer Rebbe and many others, “Religious Zionism” is “a sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”, and as published by Rav Elchonon, that Zionism is idolatry and “Religious Zionism” is idolatry and “religion” biShituf. It’s really that simple.

As to your second post:
You are also surely aware that an “ideological dispute” doesn’t cause a gadol to write like that. As Rav Shach pointed out, Rabbi Dr. Soloveitchik was unfortunately influenced by his “external” learning, to the point that Rabbi Dr. Soloveitchik wrote heresy that is shocking to see. That’s well beyond “ideological dispute”. And stories are irrelevant, as noted.

I find it amusing (and pathetic) that Zionists ignore all the poskim that bring the oaths and claim they are “only” aggadita and therefore could and should be disregarded because, say, the Rambam didn’t include them in his sefer haMitzvos (for which there are reasons given). Yet, those same Zionists, will go with stories and legends to disregard published halacha simply because of a story that someone learned with someone else or whatever other irrelevancies.

here is from 1955:
After more than a half hour of futile effort to get Rav Soloveitchik to publicly oppose giyus banos [female draft into the IDF], Rav Aharon [Kotler] came up with the following brilliancy, of course in Yiddish. He said, Bostoner Rav [R. Soloveitchik], imagine that instead of the three of us discussing this issue, there were another three who were judging the appropriateness of drafting girls into military service. Instead of the Bostoner Rav, there was your zeyde, Reb Chaim. Instead of the Radiner Rosh Yeshiva [R. Mendel Zaks], there was your father-in-law, the Chafetz Chaim. Instead of me, there was my father-in-law, Rav Iser Zalman Meltzer. Bostoner Rav, what would your zeyde have said?

This masterstroke did not result in a shift in Rav Soloveitchik’s position. He got up and said that he had to leave, “Kletsker Rosh Yeshiva and Radiner Rosh Yeshiva, a gutten tag” and left.

here is some history between early zionists and Rav Chaim Brisker

In 1904, years before Menachem Begin was born, Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Zionism died, and Zev Dov Begin, one of the leaders of the Brisk kehila, wanted to hold a memorial service in the main shul. Rav Chaim Brisker said no and locked the shul. Menachem Begin’s father and his friend, Mordechai Schneidermann (whose grandson Ariel Sharon would later play a powerful role in Menachem’s life) broke the lock of Rav Chaim Soloveitchik’s synagogue to conduct a service in Herzl’s memory.

Does that mean that Begin’s father was not respectful of the Rav? When Begin visited the United States as prime minister, he visited the great rabbis of the Agudah in Rav Moshe Feinstein’s home. He also paid a call on the Lubavitcher Rebbe and held a meeting with Rav Yosef Dov Solovietchik, who insisted on coming to meet Begin, not the reverse. Rabbi Soloveitchik reminded Menachem Begin of the incident in which his father had disobeyed Rav Soloveitchik’s grandfather. The Rav told him that, in the family, they said that this was the one and only time the elder Begin did not follow the Brisker Rav’s guidance in regards to the kehila. Menachem used to tell another story of how his father and the Rav were walking together, and an anti-Semite began harassing the Rav. Zev Dov Begin took his walking stick and hit the gentile over the head. He went to jail, but he was proud that he stood up for the honor of a Jew.

Re Rav Kuk
Yadua lakol in Bnei Brak that Chazon Ish paskined that one is allowed to learn his halacha sfarim , but not his agada sfarim.
That fits very neatly with Karyana De’igrata who clearly says that athalta d/g is wrong but not kfira.
So Rav Kuk would not be an apikorus according to Chazon Ish and according to Staipler.

Thats besides a clear letter from Emrai Emet in Osef Michtavim that although Rav Kuk is mistaken in his hashkafa, he still is a Rav who should not be mevuzah chas veshalom.
Again clear proof that athaltah d/g , while wrong- is not kfira.

All of the above clearly not like satmar rav .

Attempting to rewrite history is an might seem a viable option , but sometimes some pesky historical facts get in the way ….
.

In a letter to Rabbi Kook, Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer and Rabbi Moshe Mordechai Epstein greeted Rabbi Kook with “Our honored friend, the great gaon and glory of the generation, our master and teacher, Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen, shlita”. Meltzer was also quoted as saying “Let them, any of us, pray on Yom Kippur the way Rav Kook prays on an average weekday.”[43]

Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer also once said to the famed Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinsky from Vilna, “The two of us are considered Torah giants until we reach the door of Rabbi Kook’s office.” (cited by Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, Israel National News, August 8, 2013).

There are also some rabbis who spoke very highly of Kook in greetings of the letters they sent to him.

Chaim Ozer Grodzinski: “Our friend, the gaon, our master and teacher, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Kook, shlita” and “The Glory of Honor, My Dear Friend, Ha-Rav Ha-Gaon, Ha-Gadol, the Famous One… The Prince of Torah, Our Teacher, Ha-Rav Avraham Yitzchak Ha-Cohen Kook Shlita…”[44]

Boruch Ber Leibowitz: “The true gaon, the beauty, and glory of the generation, the tzaddik, his holiness, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak, may his light shine, may he live for length of good days and years amen, the righteous Cohen, head of the beis din [court] in Jerusalem, the holy city, may it soon be built and established.”

Chatzkel Abramsky: “The honored man, beloved of Hashem and his nation, the rabbi, the gaon, great and well-known, with breadth of knowledge, the glory of the generation, etc., etc., our master Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook, shlita, Chief Rabbi of the Land of Israel and the head of the Beis Din in the holy city of Jerusalem”

Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach: “In the time of Rabbi Kook, the majority of Torah giants were ‘all as if nothing’ compared to him.

Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv: Owing to the close relationship Rabbi Kook had with his grandfather, the Leshem, Rabbi Shlomo Elyashiv, Rabbi Kook made the match of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv and his wife, who was the daughter of Rabbi Kook’s close student, Rabbi Aryeh Levin. Rabbi Kook officiated at their wedding, and Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv later chose Rabbi Kook to be the Kohen (Priest) to redeem his oldest son, Shlomo, at his Pidyon Ha-Ben. Rav Elyashiv revered Rav Kook for both his piety and his Talmudic erudition. Rav Elyashiv would do all he could to silence those who would criticize Rav Kook and attempt to diminish his stature. He would frequently describe Rav Kook’s saintliness at his Shabbat table and occasionally reminisce about the times he attended seudah shelishit in his home.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said of Rabbj Kook that he was “a great man” and it is “forbidden to speak against him.” Rabbi Yosef further called Rabbi Kook “Tzaddik Yesod Olam

We know Haktan will say ots all stories that can be interpreted. Right only his facts are correct. of course he will bully us despite overwhelming evidence that R Kook was a holy man.

@HaKatan
You can write heresy and not be a kofer? Not only that but you can still be the greatest gedolims rebbe????
You are full of yourself! LOL

The ONLY people who are required to listen to the Satmar Rebbe are Satmar Chassidim.

Satmar Chassidim do not listen to Modern Orthodox Rabbis or Young Israel Rabbis
or Religious Zionist Rabbis or Chabad Rabbis or Sephardic Rabbis or Tzahal Rabbis,
even when those Rabbis are expert in all of Shas and all of Shulchan Aruch.

Since I am not a Satmar Chassid [Baruch HaShem],
I have *** NO REASON *** to listen to the Satmar Rebbe.

Baruch SheLo Asani Satmar!

@ HaKatan
even that supposed approval was specifically after Rabbi Kook had agreed to retract his heretical writings

That’s a story based on interpretation. According to you that doesn’t count. Show us that in writing