Thanksgiving celebration

We have always celebrated Thanksgiving as an American holiday out of thanks to Hashem and this country of ours, where Jews could be Jews without fear of pogroms. I thank Hashem EVERY day for the countless brachas He gives me, but it is simply a matter of hakoras hatov to this nation which was founded on religious and personal freedom, to mark the day in some fashion. we love turkey, so it’s a no-brainer. By the way, the national language of the USA was almost Hebrew. The Christian Governor Bradford was a student of the Bible in its original Hebrew, and was convinced that the New World should follow the Jewish Bible very closely, or so I have been told.

i do not officially “observe” thanksgiving–i dont have a turkey-dinner—but i do reflect on all the good that America has bestowed upon the Jews in America and in Israel, Baruch Hashem.

i think its important to recognize.

happy thanksgiving

im still in school. and i have off thursday+friday, so yes, i am definitely grateful for that much-neede break, especially b/c i am up late posting on YWN rather than doing some constructive and maybe overdue work

I make enough food for Thanksgiving that a substantial portion is taken off and set aside for Shabbos. Generally, we do not eat a fleishig meal on a Thirsday night, but this is the exception. I serve Turkey at other times during the year, mostly for a Yom Tov, or when we have guests that have not been over for a while (Otherwise Shabbos is chicken, cholent, once in a while a roast that’s on sale).

R’ Moshe has a t’shuva about Thanksgiving but I can’t remember what he says, although I’m pretty darn sure he doesn’t say that everyone should have a Turkey seuda.

Just a little riddle for all you riddle folks – Why didn’t R’ Yaakov Kamenetsky eat turkey for Thanksgiving?

Don’t try to think of an answer, either you know it or you don’t.

Edit: this is not to say that one *must* celebrate, it is only to say that there is certainly no problem with those who see fit to celebrate the history of our country.

I know the Kamenetsky family, and they did not eat turkey, because their family holds the tradition that it is a safek if a turkey is a kosher bird. At least, that is what R’ Yaakov ZT”L’s great-grandson told us when he was a guest in our home. Fortunately, I had not prepared turkey for that Shabbos, but it came out in conversation, when the young man complimented my cooking and I mentioned that I had originally planned to make turkey, but hadn’t purchased one in time to make it for that Shabbos. He told me, gam zu l’tovah, because in his family they do not eat turkey, because they hold to the mesora that turkey is a safek.

I never understood why Thanksgiving was so turkey-centered. The Pilgrims ate a lot more than just turkey in the New World! Maybe that’s just my vegetarian sensibilities getting offended 🙂

Anyway, I am in E”Y right now so I am not celebrating Thanksgiving. I overheard one girl say poutily at dinner earlier tonight, “It’s not Thanksgiving without pie!” Okay, so it’s not Thanksgiving. We’re in Israel, for goodness’ sake!

Growing up, I never davka celebrated Thanksgiving but sometimes my aunt and uncle would invite us over for a meal, and I think my Bubbe once took us out to a restaurant before she fell ill. It was just never a big thing with my immediate family. I definitely feel grateful to America for the religious tolerance it has provided; imagine if I had been born in 1490 Spain instead of 1990 America! But I don’t see it as being unpatriotic if I don’t have a big meal on Thanksgiving.

R’ MOshe has three tshuvos. ONe he says it’s asur, the other he says mutar, and the third he was asked why he was soser himself. He ends up saying that one, in his opinion, should not, but it’s mashma that there is a tsad to say that it’s mutar. It comes out that it’s better not to, but if one has to he could. (But I guess it’s too late now!)

squeak,

You may be correct that turkey, pumpkins, and maize were not native to Europe. But I’m certain potatoes were. They were a staple in Ireland; that’s why the potato blight in 1845 hit so hard and changed history. Maybe you are thinking of sweet potatoes?

Wow. That posted fast.

Anyway, I’ll assume you were being inquisitive rather than argumentative. You are incorrect. If you do a bit of research you will see why. However, if YW allows me to post this link, you can piggyback off this source:

http://www.britishpotatoes.co.uk/history-of-potatoes/

Or, you can read Wikipedia (and check sources!!! so that you don’t end up like some people here who think that cancer can be cured with Tincturn).

squeak,

I researched further and found potatoes were grown in Europe beginning in the late 1500s (they were native to Peru). So by the time the first Thanksgiving was celebrated they were common in many parts of Europe, and a staple in Ireland. In fact, Irish immigrants brought potatoes to North America in the 1700s.

So you are correct in that potatoes are not native to Europe, but they were actually grown in Europe before the first Thanksgiving. I still think you meant to write “sweet potatoes” and not “potatoes” on that list of foods that were new to the Pilgrims.

I know that the Irish potato famine happened 200 years after the first Thanksgiving. But I mentioned it because that’s what made me think that in order for potatoes to have become such an important staple in Ireland (so much so that a blight in this one crop caused massive starvation and emigration) it’s likely that potatoes had been grown there for some time by then.

squeak, The Great Famine of 1845 (in Ireland.)

squeak,

I hit return too soon on my previous post.

I followed your link. It indicates that Spanish conquistadors found potatoes in Peru in the 1500’s and introduced them to Europe. Then the potato was brought from Europe to the American colonies. According to the source you linked, Benjamin Franklin (who lived about 100 years after the first Thanksgiving) introduced the potato to the colonies. Thus, as I said before, the potato was cultivated in Europe before the Pilgrims reached America. So I’m not sure how you figure that I was incorrect.

thanksgiving is dumb!!

Care to explain why you think that way, YCB?

We always celebrated Thanksgiving, in the traditional American manner, with a Turkey and the family gathered together.

It is not truly a Christian Holiday, but rather a Jewish Holiday (Succoth) that the Pilgrims were trying to celebrate. They got most of the themes correct.

It is about gratitude for the bounty we have been given. This seems like a very Jewish theme to me.

We need to be grateful that most employers in the country recognize and give the day off for this, the most Jewish of the secular American holidays, even though they got the dates wrong.

P.S. I do not feel the same way about Halloween or Valentine’s day.

And the Fourth of July (Independence Day), too, celebrates something worth celebrating. Veterans Day (originally Armistice Day), Memorial Day and perhaps Labor Day, too.

I can’t believe Halloween has become such a big holiday in America over the last 20 years. It is now the 2nd biggest spending holiday of all.

It is about gratitude for the bounty we have been given. This seems like a very Jewish theme to me.

But here’s the problem. People will say, “What’s wrong with Thanksgiving? It’s an entire day set aside to give thanks to Hashem.”

To which I usually reply, “And what do you do the other 364?”

If you can access the seforim, the acharonic discourse on the kashrus of turkey is a fascinating read. The potato missed the kitniyot designation by arriving late to Europe. The Rama in Hilchos brochaos mentions ” the new vegatable” as a subject of shehecheyanu but rules it out because the storage ability takes away the seasonality. Rav Moshe ztzl, in a tshuva on peanuts/kitniyot ends with an “Ode to the Potato” saying that this wonderful thing was the basis of their chiyyus.

I love Thanksgiving. Food is great, family is great and I have off to prepare for Black Friday 🙂

Last year, I didn’t have a chance to pick up my reduced price turkey from ShopRite until the day after – it had dropped another $1/lb! That was awesome.

I do like the traditional Thanksgiving food. When I had my parents living with me, I would make the turkey and all the fixings for Shabbos Chanukah.

as Saint Ambrose said, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.”

Though this didn’t apply to Jews, we have managed to pick up some of the better parts of all the societies we lived in, and tried to keep the worst parts out of our lives.

There is good and bad in American culture, and those of us who are discussing this have much to be thankful for. Similar to the Pilgrims, we came here with hopes of being able to practice our religion freely, and to be free from persecution. America has accomplished this as successfully as any other country. I know there are flaws, but this is purely a relative measure.

One of the things Americans do right is to stop one day per year, take the day off from work, gather with our families, eat a feast, and let EVERYONE reflect on just how fortunate we are to be here, to have our bellies full, and to have our families around us.

I agree that one day of gratitude is not enough, but that is beside the point. One day is infinitely better than no days.

* yawn *

Am Ysrael Ehad If you are not american and american jews start celebrating thanksgiving is that a new minhag and in a few years people are going to say we have the tradition to celebrate it. And they would be called the amerikenses, with a different religion so far.