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I am a mother of a daughter in shidduchim and was at first a little wary to sign my daughter up. But when they had haskamah from choshuv Rabbonim that I am familiar with I took the plunge. No, my daughter is not married yet but she did get one yes and G-d willing she will get more because Project Nasi is really there for us. I have been in contact with shaddchanim who are so nice and treat us with respect and take a real interest in finding my daughter her zivug. Every time I feel discouraged and depressed that nothing is doing, Project Nasi is in touch with me with another idea, or another shaddchan contacts us, giving me hope in this difficult parsha of shidduchim.
May Hashem make Project Nasi His shaliach that my daughter (and all the other girls who are in the parsha) should become a kallah in the right time.
Money talks.
Money doesn’t talk, despite the verse in Koheles. Being realistic about age gap issue and sometimes a young lady somewhat older than a young man:- Being realistic of this facet, is what talks.
Just as money isn’t talking too well for Romney, nor did money talk too well for Bloomberg his 3rd time around, it ain’t talking for Nasi; Their common sense utilizing proven sttaistics is talking loud & clear for Nasi.
147: “Money doesn’t talk, despite the verse in Koheles.”
and what do you mean by that?
hakesef ya’aneh es hakol
Do they offer scholarships?
If its not the money, why not lower the amounts so that others can afford it too?
I am happy for you Emaofthree, and hope you are zocheh to make a chasunah b’korov for your daughter.
by the way, my previous post was a rhetorical question.
@ 147: There are alot of posts in other threads with lots and lots of info on the nasi project. I couldnt get to read it all, but the bottom line is, why is Imaof three only experiencing a burst of shadchanim calling now after she paid the exorbitant price as opposed to before? Must be the whiff of a couple of grand…
So you are thanking them for getting one “yes”?
I thought we established in my troll thread about the guy who dated 200 girls that dating is not success, getting married is.
To miritchka:
Or maybe it’s because the info on the participants is made availbale to 100 shadchanim across the country, shadchnim who previously didn’t even know that particular young woman existed…..
PBA – you post an awful lot about shidduchim for someone not aware that the situation is such that for many girls getting ideas and going out is a major step forward.
Imaofthree: I agree 100%. Shadchanim deserve to be paid shadchanus, generously.
AZ: you are right too that their names are now on lists all over the country. However, my point is that yes shadchanim deserve to be paid generously, but i think that the amounts listed are very high and are not giving everyone a chance. I used to be very impressed by NASI, and to some extent, i still am. But this price did put a damper on this outlook. Why is it that only after you pay the money to NASI is it that your name gets passed on? Why cant their names be passed on without that tremendous amount and then the shadchan receive shadchanus if their suggestion works out?
I dont want to put down NASI, what you do is amazing, but there are still plenty of us who dont agree with the way this is coming about. I dont want to start a whole thread again about all this, this is how i and many others view NASI now. But tizku l’mitzvohs..
miritchka:
Just so we are clear. no money is PAID to nasi. NASI hasn’t pocketed a penny. Not a grush not a dime from any of the participnats in the program.
NOTHING
NADA
ZILCH
are we CLEAR on this??????? because the comment you make is not so clear.
NASI simply holds the money on behalf of the participants until they walk down the ailse. The participants can get their money back at any time they want out.
NASI did raise outside funds to cover the costs of getting the program up and running, but not a penny from any participant becaseu no one in the program will spend a cent until after they walk down the aisle (and yes at that time imy”h -in some cases- NASI will pocket the grand total of $500).
If you feel you have a better, more effetive way of having 100 shadchanim from across the coutnry sign up and look to work on behlaf of the the participants (and your post clearly indicates that you have the plan in mind) BY ALL MEANS GO FOR IT!!!!!!!
and i will wish you the greatest hatzlacha.
AZ: Like i said before, NASI is amazing and what they do can be unbelievable. When i said that “Why is it that only after you pay the money to NASI is it that your name gets passed on? Why cant their names be passed on without that tremendous amount and then the shadchan receive shadchanus if their suggestion works out?” I didnt mean that NASI actually took the money, i meant that in order to get your names on ‘the list’, you have to pay the few grand to the account that NASI opened up to pay the shadchan. Sorry if i wasnt clear.
By the way, i am, b”h, married. I have many friends though who are not and cant afford to join NASI. So those girls cant get on ‘the list’ because they cant afford to pay? Do you hear my point of view?
PBA – you post an awful lot about shidduchim for someone not aware that the situation is such that for many girls getting ideas and going out is a major step forward.
I just wanted to repeat that. I don’t think I need to respond to it.
NO- it’s been discussed and explained in depth a hundred times over.
As for getting on the list and paying later, by all means- start your own program and run it that way.
Just becaseu NASI seems to the only program working to alleviate the crisis, doesn’t mean they have any monopoly on assiting in easing the crsis.
Go for it…
as an aside, i’m curious, for the young women who can’t afford the money “up front” why do you think they’ll be able to afford it after they get engaged, when they are saddled with the monumental expenses involved in making a wedding.
I am no way in any position to start a program like NASI. I dabble in shidduchim here and there though.
The reason i feel that these young women cant afford to pay before is because
a) these girls, right now, give more than half their income to their parents who really need it and use the other half or most of the other half for things for themselves and siblings if the need arises.
b) for the girls that arent contributing toward the family expenses, they arent making enough to afford the exorbitant prices that NASI is “charging” after paying for their own personal expenses
But, they will be able to afford to pay the shadchan after because they will give what they can. Everyone knows that shadchanim deserve more than we can give, but to slap down a price in the thousands for one girl (in this economy) is really overdoing it. I’ve looked up to shadchanim and still do and try to emulate them, but by “charging” this astronomical price, it makes shadchanim look like what many say about them.
just to simply put things in persepective- Yes of course money talks, what project NASI is doing is helping a lot of girls who can afford to “buy” shidduch dates and yes its an amazing thing that all these girls will get more dates. That being said, there is another side of the equation, all the girls who can not afford to “buy” shidduch dates. These girls get messed over because the shadchanim (most of the time) go to the families who can afford to pay.
So like most things, project NASI has both positives and negatives its all how you look at it…oh and mazel tov immaofthree on your upcoming simcha!!!!
PBA – I think I’ve got your posting personality just fine. In this case, I felt that was unnecessarily hurtful.
maybe. sorry.
far east: i totally agree. the NASI project really only helps the girls who can afford to pay, which, while getting more shadchanim for them, doesnt really change the situation that much…
AZ: can you clarify the issue in far east’s post?
It’s been discuseed expained clarified ad nasuem.
Just for the record. The girls in the program are not the “rich” girls. Feel/say/claim what you want. Its’ simply not accurate. If anything, this program give the poor girls chances they never would’ve dreamed of having…..
No need to defend in this forum a project that is being b”h very succesful as based on feed back from the participants. Both thoses who ahve already gotten dates as well as those who don’t.
AZ,
I think the biggest problem with project NASI is that it puts a price tag on girls and some people feel uncomfortable with it. And even those who signup for it dont feel so comfortable with the amount but do it anyway because there are no good alternatives.
I think the payment amounts should have been determined by the girls. So if a girl A invests $500 and girl B invests $10,000 then shudchanim would obviously give more attention to girl B… BUT if they happen to hear of a perfect match for girl A they would obviously still redd it to her since it’s a higher probability for them to be paid.
This way ever girl would be make her own decision how much she is in need of NASI and maybe as she gets older and more desperate she would raise the shudchanus as she sees fit.
AZ, can you please explain why such an idea wouldnt be good? Or maybe its not so bad and you’ll try to include it into the program.
Thanks
2qwerty:
can you please explain why you don’t set up a program based on your concept. Please go for it, and i’ll gladly report back to the NASI people what you post here.
(for the record: i’m told that your concept was discuseed in the early planning stages of this program, but it was discarded. If you know better, go for it)
Once we are on the topic- The next step of the program is being put into place where each of the participnats gets matched up with shadhcnim who are likely to be the proper shaliach for them. They can be in touch and be reacehd out to by any of the shadchanim and vice vera, but by being matching the participants with the proper shadhcnim it will make the program 100x’s more effective for the particpants and it will make it easier on the shadchanim as well by virute of the shadhcanim primarily being contatnce by participnats who they are likely to be able to help, as opposed to particpants who try as they might, they don’t really have anyone for them.
stay tuned…
as for your comments regarding those who sign up for it. Have you spoken to anyone in the program who has beenin it for 3 weeks? or are you simlply gueesing…
“If anything, this program give the poor girls chances they never would’ve dreamed of having…..”
AZ- you didnt explain at all how this helps poor girls????
No need to repeat what’s been discussed and explained 62 times already.
If any other Cr members would like to go ahead.
But here’s a hint. Prior to this program what could a not wealthy girl do to get attentino from 100 shadhcnimn acroos the coutnry.
anything?
for the record (i’m told) that the girls in the program are by and large NOT from wealthy families. It’s primarily families who realize this is a safe secure no risk way to get massive attention from shadhcanim that they never would’ve dreamed of.
AZ- so basically what ur saying is “poor” girls should scrap and save every penny they earn so they can pay the thousands of dollars it costs to recieve some attention from shadchanim. Something seems off about that and as much as i understand the business side of shadchanis, this is over the limit and too much.
Im gonna go out on a limb and guess ur related to a shadchan…
of course 100 percent. Im not trying to bash project nasi at all i simply pointed out the positives and negatives of the program. At the end of the day it does make the shadchanim focus more on the ones who can afford to pay that is the reality.
No but the shadchanim that are on project nasi focus more on the ones that will make them the most money, often ignoring the ones who cant afford project nasi. Obviously in your case project nasi was a success, but that doesnt make it a perfect system it has some serious flaws.
Unfortunately ive had a lot experience in this area… Yes some shadchanim are very special people who are doing it for the right reason, but lets be realistic money talks. Theres a reason the price gets higher as the girl gets older…more $$$$… 1 or 2 thousand is understandable, but 6 or 7 thousand!!! Project NASI is great but not everyone can afford that special attention. its designed for the wealthy in the community. i dont get how you could disagree with that
FE: how on earth do you know who what where or how the shadchanim associated with the program are doing.
Oh the program knows becaseu it’s tracked along witht the programs that are ongoing in all the other communites.
But feel free to guess and make assumptions based on your geusses.
and at the risk of a broken record- it was desinged for the NOT wealthy. The wealthy haven’t been joining. The regular quality youn women who were having difficutly getting attention are the ones joining. and being very happy with how it’s working.
ALL at ZERO cost and risk.
It’s plain and pashut to anyone who thinks for 5 minutes.
I am happy for any and all people who are helped by P”N. That said, I am sad for all the wonderful, baalos middos tovos, beautiful financially poor girls who are having trouble finding their basherteh, and the P”N shadchanim are NOT helping them because they couldn’t come up with the gelt, and those other shadchanim who DO work with them just ain’t cuttin’ the mustard. As with anything in life, money talks. That, btw, is NOT the Torah way. Money (or its lack) is NOT supposed to influence a judge in court, how much more so in all aspects of life!
You guys keep saying over and over how this helps poor girls….how are girls with no money supposed to come up with the extra thousands it costs to pay the exuberent amount for some attention… and guess what AZ, i know numerous families who can’t even dream of coming up with that much money!!! you may not have a concept of what truly not having extra money really means….
That was also expained at lenght why this program presently does not hurt the girls who can absolutely not afford it and of course there are many of such girls.
When iy”h the program is so succesful as to cause difficulty for the ones who can’t afford it, they will be hlepd as well. I’m simply tired of repeating the same message again and again.
Iy’h the results will speak for themselves as they are doing in the community programs that was also attacked in this holy forum when they were launched…
Far east,
Let me try to explain it to you… You see shadchanim like to set up girls from rich families because they are easier to sell and there is more certainty of getting paid. Sometimes I see an older girl who’s been working and saving but because her family is poor she still doesn’t get enough attention. But if she joins NASI then to shadchanim she looks just like a rich girl so they are willing to work with her. Even if the girl has to borrow or collect for it its worth it because this will make her seem rich and then she’ll get lots of offers.
By the way, if anyone is looking for a job… Great salesperson can make 10k in commissions per successful match.
oomis – without getting involved in the PN issue –
Why do we demand that shadchanim be l’shem shamayim ? Do you demand of the plumber that he charge less for poor girls ? Shadchanim need to make money, so its natural to focus on shidduchim that can make them money. They can use their position to help others, including the poor – just like any other professional.
thanx 2querty youve given me the best answer so far i cant say i agree with whats happening but i understand somewhat how it has the ability to help poorer girls
AZ- ok you clearly have a bias towards PN….not sure what your affiliation is but thats irrelevant. You will never admit that your system has some serious flaws i honestly dont get why mayb its pride or stubborness?? I gotta admit i usually dont get so upset over online posting but this time youve got to me… please keep supporting your “perfect” system im sure you couldnt car less about people who cant afford it even if they tried saving up and spending every last penny on shadchanus.
Dont get me wrong im not trying to bash shadchanim in any way, shape, or form, but if ur gonna tell me a shadchan deserves 11 grand for finding a shidduch for a 28 year old ur completely wrong. Nobody deserves that much money for making a shidduch….of course if they do it the right way they deserve a sum…but 11000 dollars!!!! come on people this is crazy who has that much money lying around????
Far east:
1. For 28 year old it’s 8,500. 8,000 goes to the shadchan after the wedding and 500 would go to the project after the wedding. EVERY PENNY of that money can be asked back by the participant at any point in time if they feel the program isn’t working for them. It is only spent if she walks down the aisle as a result of the efforts of a shadhcan in the program. (forget about idea of a participant asking for the money back the day before she gets engaged, the contract is structired in such a way that such abuses are prevented)
2. Project NASI’s goal here is not the shadhcan’s livelyhood. It’s iss and always been about alleviating and hopefully ending the shidduch crisis. They have simply realized that this is one of the very effective ways to help the young women. If you have a better more effective system by all means go implement it. They have been at this problem for well over four years now. They have scratched programs that didn’t produce results they have furthered and improved upon the programs that have prodcued results.
This new program – in the very short time that it’s been active – has clearly been producing tremendous and measurable results. and it’s been getting better day by day as they continue to improve upon it.
You post theory I post results.
your results have nothing to do with my theory
I understand your trying to end the shidduch crisis i simply disagree with your methods as i have explained above…no need to keep having the same argument over and over
Diagreement/input etc. makes all project more effective.
The secret to NASI’s succes B”H, is that they seek/take input from myriads of people from all ends of the community specrum as well as constantly adjusting their activties.
If you suggestions aren’t/weren’t implemented. It’s not becasue they dind’t consider them, it’s simply becasue upon review they decided it wasn’t the proper course of action.
But anyone else is welcome to try and imlement their own ideas.
AZ,
I have been following your posts and your numerous defenses of Project Nasi in this thread and in others as well.
I don’t think anyone disagrees with the fact that shadchanim appreciate the monetary incentive to work harder on making matches. I don’t think anyone disagrees with the fact that we have a shidduch crisis and more matches need to be made.
I do think however, that the opposition you are facing stems largely from the fact that this new shidduch initiative goes against very core yiddishe hashkafos. Project Nasi is perpetuating the capitalistic view that money equals value. I think the people opposed to this program take offense at Project Nasi’s attempt to put a price on the heads of Jewish daughters like they are goods to be peddled at market. The older they are, the further their value gets discounted, and so you ask for more money to clear them out.
Yes, the project may be seeing results. The program may make sense from an economic standpoint, I am not arguing that. I think though, that you may have lost sight of the fact that the ends doesn’t always justify the means. We are a holy nation, and certain things we just don’t do. Putting a price tag on the shidduch of our daughters is one of those things. I don’t care what results you see. Lack of a better current program is not an excuse. Sit quietly until you, or someone else finds one. Because this is not an answer.
We are better than this. We as a people have prouder values than those of capitalistic America. Please, please stop this travesty.
Kshmo kein hu- beautifully written! you sure nailed it.
Kshmo kein hu – I agree with you totally! Couldn’t have said it better. It would be a great idea if you send your comment to the Yated, as they had huge ads for Project Nasi.
Nothing against the Yated, btw, I just figured since Nasi’s ad was in there and ppl did write in to complain, your comment would be a good addition.
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