Teshuva for Retzicha

There are some common sense “Tikunim” that one can do,

Like work for Hatzolah, get involved in Kiruv,

Help real poor people financially. Also support true Torah study,

especially Tikonos shel Beis Raban. Daven for people who are child barren.

Mike: The victim is the deceased and the mechilla would need to come from him, not family. Perhaps he needs to go to the kever and ask mechilla, but teshuva is always available in Judaism.

momma: Not much different than if you wronged someone in a lesser way (i.e. you punched him in the face) and he later passed away before you asked for forgiveness.

When the Sanhedrin was in power, if someone intentionally killed someone but there was no advance warning to him, how did Beis Din punish him?

When the Sanhedrin was in power, if someone intentionally killed someone but there was no advance warning to him, how did Beis Din punish him?

I’m certain that someone will pop up and say something along the lines of “machnisim oso l’kippah.” But I’ve always wondered about the parameters of how such a thing was carried out.

First of all, IIRC correctly, when discussed in the Gemara, it was not in the context of using it to punish people who could not, for technical reasons, be executed by the courts, but rather as a punishment for recidivist sinners — people who would commit the same (malkus-level) sins over and over again. But I don’t think there is discussion of using it for one-time cases where, for absence of the required criteria, a standard capital punishment could not be carried out.

For example, there is the case of Shimon ben Shetach, who saw a man chase another man into an alley while holding a knife. When he finally arrived there, he saw the persued laying on the ground bleeding from a knife wound and the other man standing over him holding the bloody knife.

There was pretty much no doubt that the man had committed the murder. And yet, SbS was pained over the matter that he could not bring the murderer to justice since he alone witnessed it (and presumably did not issue a warning beforehand as well). Ultimately, the matter was handled by the True Judge, who caused the murder to die from (IIRC) a snake bite.

But the point is this: if machnisim oso l’kippah was an option, by would SbS have been so pained? The obvious answer is that it was not an option and that, absent the Divine intervention that ultimately happened, the man would have gotten away with the deed.

The Wolf

Wolf -“But the point is this: if machnisim oso l’kippah was an option, by would SbS have been so pained? The obvious answer is that it was not an option and that, absent the Divine intervention that ultimately happened, the man would have gotten away with the deed”

Your mistake is machnisim oso l’kippah is Divine intervention, not something punisable by Jews, such as Bais Din!
That case was exactly a case where they could have machnisim oso l’kippah.

Your mistake is machnisim oso l’kippah is Divine intervention, not something punisable by Jews, such as Bais Din!

No. Either you misunderstood me, or (more likely) I was unclear.

My point was that machnisin oso l’kippah was not used simply as a way to get around the technicalities of a proper execution being illegal under the circumstances, since, if it were an option, Shimon ben Shetach would not have been so pained about the murderer potentially getting away.

The Wolf

Wolf – “if it were an option, Shimon ben Shetach would not have been so pained about the murderer potentially getting away.”

Wrong! He was pained because there was No option of punishment by Bais Din!
The punishment of Kipa is from Heaven!

May 1, 2018 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm#1514529REPLY
HealthParticipant
T2-2T -” his own admittance doesnt count min hatorah.”

Only to punish him, but you could believe him.
————————-
If אן אדם מסים עצמו רשע. Then how can one believe his/her story?

WolfishMusings: According to your understanding (as explained above), anyone could easily decide to kill someone else, for whatever reason, and always get away with it by simply doing it before he is warned against it. Assuming it is a one-shot deal and he is not a repeat offender. He could even do it in broad daylight in front of dozens of witnesses. And Beis Din will be powerless to punish him after the fact. Any rasha could realize this and decide to get away with premeditated murder (other than what he’ll face after 120.)

Rivash 251 and Beis Yosef DH v’Nir’eh: Beis Din can punish according to the needs of the time, even without proper testimony. However, we are more apt to punish when there is greater testimony. We would cause a murderer to die (by locking him in a cell – Sanhedrin 81b) when there was not sufficient testimony against him. Some say that this is when the witnesses did not see each other, or there was no warning, or the witnesses disagreed about minor details. No one says that we do so based on one witness or women or Pesulim.

Wolf: Your clarification is still pending.

Rashi in Mispatim explains on לא אנה לידו, was not done intentionally. Two individuals where one kills intentionally and the other by accident are invited by Hashem to a motel. The one who kills intentionally sleeps below in a bunkbed and the other above. The one sleeping above falls on the one below with witnesses present and killing him. Now the one who killed intentionally is dead and the other one ends up in arei miklat.

>However the Rambam and Shaarei Teshuva as well as other sources (I believe its a Gemara) That if one sins and says Echta Veashuv – I will do Teshuvah afterwards his Teshuvah is not accepted

his teshuvah that he was planning to wont be accepted but if he does a much higher level of teshuvah that he wasnt planing on doing then he is mechaper his averia.

It says twice echta veashuv for one time it is ok to say to be mekaim the mitzva of teshuva but why twice?

By saying it one time, one shows the chashivus of teshuva in one’s eyes and chishuv laasos mitzva keilu osa.