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I know this topic was briefly discussed in the “Walmart” column, but I deem it serious enough to dedicate a forum entirely to this issue. Forty or fifty years ago when the bungalow “movement” was just beginning, there were few options for how to entertain our kids in the summer months while school was out. Sleepaway camps were not as abundant as they are today. Day camps, likewise, were not so popular. Parents wanted to give there children a nice place to frolick and play, let off some energy. it was nice to get away from the hot city streets. Baruch Hashem today, we have many camps and day camps to keep our kids busy. And yes, it is nice for parents to spend several weeks in an open air environment where it is easier to appreciate Hashem’s beautiful world. The problem is that most husbands have jobs in the city that they cannot just abandon. They spend the whole week in the city by themselves. What are they doing in the evenings when they finish work? One thing is for sure-most are not learning in the bais medrash. Men are getting together with each other-enjoying the freedom. This probably starts out innocently enough. But when this happens on a regular basis, it often leads to kalus rosh and frivolty. It’s possibly worse, however, when the men are home alone. Many are “getting into trouble”-watching things they shouldn’t be and going places they shouldn,t. After all, who will find out? When the cat’s away, the mice come out and play.
What about the women? Everyone knows about the notorious lawn chair “circles” where the women get together for hours and talk all kinds of lashon hara and rechilus. What about the women who are “bored” and find themselves going out shopping or to all the various eateries? I understand that the women need a break and vacation, but at what cost? Nebach, the poor husbands who are falling prey to aveiros because their wives need a break! The older kids are in camp. The younger kids could go to day camp in the city. The family could go away for weekends, if necessary.
There is a shul in flatbush that has a summer night kollel program where they serve supper for a nominal fee. There are then shiurim and chavrusa learning. If all the shuls had this, then I would keep my mouth shut.
I am not sure how to solve the womens’ lashon hara problem. Any ideas are welcomed.
But in any event, I am just writing this to open the eyes of our choshuve kehilla. Perhaps we should take a step back and rethink our own individual situations. Each family is different. Some husband have the luxury of staying up in the colony all week. Your ideas and criticsms are encouraged! Thank you.
slabodka, You bring up very good points. Please submit your own proposed solution. We would all be very interested in your opinion on this matter, having brought up vital issues.
josephf, everything is ok.
Slabodka – couldn’t agree more. Another point: MONEY. Who can afford renting an expensive bungalow nowadays? Most people not. Although there is something about the yishuv hadaas, & the fresh country air, this peer pressure / competition has to stop. I know of more than one family who was forced to go into debt in order to buy a summer home since everyone in their “group” (who possibly did have the finances) bought.
Another thing.. If you stop & think about this whole concept of cramming big families into tiny decrepit 2 room bungalows – which are at the mercy of any sudden wind (or almost, calm breeze) to fall apart.. Hashem yerachem. They’re so unsafe.
OTOH if you want to be positive, you can take a lesson from it = histapkes b’miet – if these ppl. would be forced to live under such conditions all year round they wouldn’t survive… but in the summer – not even a kvetch! It’s marvelous.
slabodka
i’ve been talking about the bungalow colony situation, since way before the summer. and the risks involved by going.
the only reason i could think why women let the men stay in the city or vice versa is they are just simply NIAVE!!
am i wrong??????????
What’s the message that’s being given to us? Do as I say, but not as I do.
Our role models: Rabbonim; Rabbeim; Kolleleit; Yeshiva administration; etc- are mostly away from the city during the summer months– in the country or camps or hotels or traveling. Borough Park and Flatbush are ghost towns (what a m’chaya!)
What’s the heter for abandoning their mispalilim; talmidim; and families who depend on their spiritual guidance?
Wives, don’t kid yourselves. Even with the dinners and night kollels, there’s loads of time for other things. We are only human beings, not malachim and no better then our heroic biblical personalities who were nichshal.
Rav Eliyahu Lapian, even when quite elderly, did not trust himself to be put in situations where it was possible to be be nichshal with women.
How then can we separate men from their pas b’salo, and expect them to be tzadikim?
What’s the message that’s being given to us? Do as I say, but not as I do.
Our role models: Rabbonim; Rabbeim; Kolleleit; Yeshiva administration; etc- are mostly away from the city during the summer months– in the country or camps or hotels or traveling. Borough Park and Flatbush are ghost towns (what a m’chaya!)
What’s the heter for abandoning their mispalilim; talmidim; and families who depend on their spiritual guidance?
Wives, don’t kid yourselves. Even with the dinners and night kollels, there’s loads of time for other things. We are only human beings, not malachim and no better then our heroic biblical personalities who were nichshal.
Rav Eliyahu Lapian, even when quite elderly, did not trust himself to be put in situations where it was possible to be be nichshal with women.
How then can we separate men from their pas b’salo, and expect them to be tzadikim?
Many families cannot afford a summer home and send send their kids to sleep-away camp A lot of “interesting”things are learned in camp that would never be picked up at home.Some are good,taught by good counselors and others are bad,taught by peers,other campers, who know certain things that parents would not discuss at home.Fathers/husbands are working hard at their jobs so they can pay for camp and bungalow and the high cost of driving to and from the ‘country’ to the city and back. Many wives/mothers relax their standards in the bungalow while the husband is away,alone in the city. He still attends shul and shiurim while also cooking and doing laundry .Then he goes to work and leaves early on Friday to drive back to the bungalow. It is not easy for the husbands who are very dedicated to their families’welfare.Do the wives appreciate what their husbands are doing for them? Anxd when the husbands come up to the bungalow for the weekend the wives are not ready for the mikva an d not interested in the mens’ needs. Is that fair?
The way I see it a person has to look at what there is to be gained and weigh the pros and cons. Like it has been mentioned, bungalow colonies were once a great necessity for those living in the city. Those who are living in Flatbush/Boro park the need for recreation still exists but not as easy for everyone now that we lead busier and more complex lifestyles.
For 5 years I lived in the Boro Park/Flatbush area. It was an interesting period of our lives and I loved having so much at our finger tips. 2 groceries, dry cleaner, milchig and fleshig take out, shoe store, liquor store and many other luxuries with in 2 blocks of my front door. Minyonim….even better Litvish, Chassidsh, Sefardic, you name it I could find it and pretty much any time that I wanted it. However, coming from an out of town environment, I wanted a place where my kids could play all year round (the postage stamp size back yard didn’t count as a suitable place) and not be raised in such an intense environment. So my wife and I made the choice to move to a more suburban setting, found a great mokom of Torah for our kids, and B’H we don’t have the need to get away to the country for the summer.
So it’s all about choices. If you feel that while your family goes up they are just schmoozing while your yiddishkeit weakens…then it’s time to rethink the arrangement. If you think it is unfair, that you work extra hard and loose out on certain “family” time, then maybe it’s time for a family meeting.
While I don’t go away, I can see the desire to go up where the air is cleaner and there is clear calmer environment. However, it is not for everyone. For some it works and for some it doesn’t. You just have to see where you stand on the issue and either speak up to make a change or just let it go and face the consequences (either positive or negative depending on the case.)
It amazes me what low opinion most of you have of your fellow Jews! I went to the country until my youngest had to go to camp. Then I couldn’t afford to rent a bungallow and to send 2 boys to sleepaway camp. I wasn’t naive about what my husband was doing I TRUSTED him. Remember trust? Yes, there will be some men and some women who will do what they shouldn’t, but if you can’t trust them now, what says you can trust them when you are in the city. A man or woman could always be “working late”. As for women sitting in circles talking lashon hara, do you think that if they were in the city it wouldn’t happen? If a person wants to do bad, the place wouldn’t stop them.
Some of you should maybe learn how to see the better in people. I am by nature very cynical but you guys have low minds. Get your minds out of the gutter! Take care of yourself and don’t go make forums like this into your own “lashon hara circles”
To dagim41:
So wives, if you are in the country, yes show your appreciation. Be ready to respect your husbands and please them when he comes. Fake it for two days. If not, his cooking and doing the laundry at home should be the least of your concerns.
As is with everything else ,the bungalow colony situation could be used for the good or the bad. There are many batei medrashim where supper is sreved at a nominal fee afterwhich all the baalei batim proceed to the beis medrash to learn (e.g. Bobov – you can come see it for yourself). As far as the wives are concerned I know (first hand) of colony where the ladies get together and learn Chafetz Chaim & say Tehilim – you can imagine how the shmoozing that ensues afterward takes on a totally different picture. All this is in the zechus of one lady who had the courage to institute this wonderful idea.
The Torah is talking to frum yidden who are not rashaim. It is talking to husbands and wives who trust each other. It is talking to Yehuda, Yosef, to Dovid Hamelech and to yidden who witnessed k’rias yam suf and har sinai. It is talking to the biggest godol hador and saying “careful, you too can slip”.
The nisyonos are hard enough, don’t put your head in the sand and think the Torah’s warnings are not meant for you and me.
i would really love to go to the country in a few years from now, when i will have kids to enjoy it along w/ me. It is very impt to get that break of routine, and have a time to refresh from one year to the next. In the city it is difficult to get that same break. So if you could afford a nice little 2 bedroom bungalow in the country why not. There is nothing like the mass of grass and delicous fresh air, and the cool breeze and shade in the catskills. I think its wonderful. And its not some new modern idea–it’s practically a tradition by now.
The men in the city are working so they can cover the summer expenses…the may work til late not having the pressure to be home on time..or they are going to extra shiurim or they are spending time w/ their friends—-is there anything wrong for the men to socialize w/ their friends—aren’t we women doing that in the country?
if there are bad stories going around—then these are ppl w/ extreme issues–not the avg oilem
so take it easy ppls and enjoy your summer
Native Israeli – See no evil…hear no evil…speak no evil.
Has head in the sand.
cherrybim–very dramatic!
i did not comment that i hear no evil-there is evil—and this evil exists by ppl who have no yiras shamayim!!
and this should not have any affect on the rest of our jewish community that are B”H very ehrlich..and want to have a healthy vacation
I thought the single most negative side effect of the “bungalow colony movement” is that people go to shul in crocs and dont bring along their hat this causes their kids not to get accepted into the school of their choice if they live in Lakewood.
jphone, b.h. someone here still has a sense of humor!
jphone: ditto. that got a smile out of me too.
Let’s put muzzles on the women and cameras on the men.
Lakewood families don’t go to bungalow colonies since Lakewood is itself is like the country.
joseph
you wish lakewood was like the country, that was 20 years ago. i think you forgot that lakewood AND monsey have both become big crowded cities. lakewood today has over 112000 residents & can have double by 2030. today lakewood is stuffed to the max & has become very dense with tons of traffic non-stop even forcing people to move into other towns nearby including jackson & toms river etc…
“Lakewood families don’t go to bungalow colonies since Lakewood is itself is like the country.”
I have bungalow colony neighbors who disagree with you.
While we cannot force people to move, there are regular articles and ads here and other frum websites about the many smaller to medium size communities outside of the NY/NJ areas that offer great opportunities for young Jewish couples to move and raise a family. They have good schools, affordable housing, great recreational opportunities and growing economies. While there are some couples who are so hung up on being close to their parents and inlaws, they would rather live in a crowded hovel, put up with the noise, pollution and crowding of NYC, pay ridiculous amounts for tuition and otherwise live an inferior quality of life to be able to be around families. They fail to understand their are airplanes, trains, cars etc. to visit when you want.
There are exceptions to every rule, apy.
How’s the Catskills different than Lakewood, Jacob?
Tuition and kosher food and other Jewish expenses costs more out of town than in NY/NJ, ghadorah. And jobs are far more and higher paying in NY than OOT.
Especially yours.
The side effects of not going away are much greater.
If you get yourself a nice farm in the Catskills, you won’t have to buy milk and eggs for most of the year, and if you don’t form emotional attachments easily you won’t have to buy meat either.
Chaver, what are those side effects?
Also the air is much healthier
Lakewood and Monsey have great air too.
Been there and disagree.
Where have you been and what do you disagree about it?
What you said.
I agree that everything must have limits, however to say that most husband are going to do somthing wrong because their wives are away is crazy. If a man is going to watch somthing hes not supposed to just because hes wife is away shows there is a chasoron in their marridge or person, not hes wife.
You’ve been to both Lakewood and Monsey and determined that the Catskills has good air whereas both L and M have bad air?
Did you measure air quality with your nose only?
If a man is going to watch somthing hes not supposed to just because hes wife is away shows there is a chasoron in their marridge or person
Indeed, it’s not a problem for perfect people.
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