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One can also be dan l’kaf z’chus that all seemingly frei Yidden are really frum, and the reason they drive cars on Shabbos is because they’re all in Hatzoloh, the reason they eat tarfus is because they all have ulcers, and the reason they don’t dress tzniusly is because they all have rare, painful skin conditions.
Yes, but you can say that the non-frum jews don’t know any better; so you can say that by the Sheepshead Bay Theater goers. Also, there are halachikly permitted movies.
There are also Hatzoloh calls, ulcers, and rare, painful skin conditions.
So I don’t know why you even assume that there are any non frum Jews.
I think the chance of it being permitted is at least more likely than your cases of ulcers, Hatzoloh calls, etc.
What does that mean, “chance of it being permitted”? The poskim are very clear about it.
Anyhow, that wasn’t my point. My point is that there’s no chiyuv to be dan l’kaf z’chus someone who has no chezkas kashrus for a particular issue, and not very productive to bury your head in the sand.
Rav Moshe Feinstein (IM, YD 4:11:1)
?? ??? ????? ????”
? ????’ ‘??”? ??????? ??????’
?????
“?? ???’ ????? ?? ????? ??????
Most movies(?????), not all of them
Here: IM YD 4:11:1
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=922&st=&pgnum=212&hilite=
Do you honestly believe that all the shomer Shabbos people going to movie theaters are going solely to films which R’ Moshe would approve of?
Rav Moshe tz”l prohibited movie theaters because of Moshav Leitzim. He also said most movies are being megarah yetzer harah, not all of them.
By the way is this loshan hara saying some shomer shabbos yidden go to movie theaters, or since we are not saying exactly who they are we are not being oiver on loshan hara?
You didn’t answer the question, and no.
No, there is no loshon hara, or No, we are still being oiver?
It didn’t come out so clear to me.
It’s not lashon hora.
And you still haven’t answered my question, which I will clarify as well:
Do you honestly believe that the movies people are going to, or for that matter watching at home, are exclusively of content which R’ Moshe would not call assur?
There is a difference between assur and not approve of.
Yes there is. For example, Rav Moshe does not approve of smoking (in fact disapproves), but says it’s not assur.
You still didn’t answer the question.
this loshan hara saying some shomer shabbos yidden
You can’t say loshon hara even on non-shomer shabbos yidden since they don’t know any better.
Rav Moshe tz”l says it is assur to start smoking. And Rav Moshe’s son-in-law, Rav Tendler, says that Rav Moshe would take back his opinion today in light of more recent studies and the fact that less people smoke today and would now prohibit smoking altogether.
edited
You still haven’t answered the question.
Anyhow, to your side points: some ????? ??? are ????? ?????, some aren’t.
Rav Moshe never made such a chilluk, at least not that I’ve seen. I think you made that up.
I do not consider his son-in-law to be a reliable source.
Rav Moshe tz”l says it is assur to get addicted.
Rav Moshe knew that smoking was addictive, yet didn’t say it was assur.
I think in Chosen Mishpat Volume 2; 18 and 76 where Rav Moshe tz”l says it is assur to start smoking and get yourself addicted. Smoking is addictive, dangerous and prohibited by many Rabbonim. If one looks online for “RCA Smoking Halacha” he will see a kol koreh there from many prominent Rabbis prohibiting smoking. Rav Elyashiv and other Gedolim prohibited smoking also. Obviously, if one is already addicted he should seek out help and not despair. I am not interested in making this into a smoking thread.
There are a lot of G movies that are mutar.
wow! continue staying strong!
There are a lot of G movies that are mutar.
Maybe if they’re cartoons without any actual females. Anything other than G is certainly assur (for the reasons it wasn’t able to earn a G.) Even most Gs are assur. And how many Gs are playing right now in that Sheepshead Bay place you mentioned?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=921&st=&pgnum=315&hilite=
You could make a case for this one, but he’s clearly saying it because of increasing taa’vos and hana’os, and the irony of your bringing this in in a thread in which you are defending watching movies has not escaped me.
There are a lot of G movies that are mutar.
And some G movies are not okay, and I don’t know how it’s possible to discern which ones without watching them, which would be assur because they might be problematic. Either way, I’ll repeat my question, which you still haven’t answered, again: do you honestly believe that these G movies you refer to are the only ones frum people watch?
More importantly, Shopping613, great job! Keep it up!
Maybe if they’re cartoons without any actual females. Anything other than G is certainly assur (for the reasons it wasn’t able to earn a G.) Even most Gs are assur. And how many Gs are playing right now in that Sheepshead Bay place you mentioned?
1)What is the problem with a female modestly dressed?
2) What do you mean “even most Gs are assur”? Just the opposite, most Gs are mutar.
3) Why is PG assur?
And some G movies are not okay, and I don’t know how it’s possible to discern which ones without watching them, which would be assur because they might be problematic. Either way, I’ll repeat my question, which you still haven’t answered, again: do you honestly believe that these G movies you refer to are the only ones frum people watch?
There are tons of sites that give a detailed account of the content and problematic things in the movie. I’m sure that there are some frum people who only watch G. There are probably others that watch PG. But they can all very well be basically clean.
Would you go to a restaurant in which the food was “basically” kosher?
1)What is the problem with a female modestly dressed?
How many fingers on your right-hand do you need to use to count the number of movies over the last quarter century that have females that are all dressed in long sleeve shirts, long skirts, not tight and covering all required areas?
2) What do you mean “even most Gs are assur”? Just the opposite, most Gs are mutar.
No, I correctly said what I meant: even most Gs are assur.
3) Why is PG assur?
Why was it rated PG rather than G? Why is Parental Guidance required?
Would you go to a restaurant in which the food was “basically” kosher?
Don’t confuse pritzus with kashrut.
You could make a case for this one, but he’s clearly saying it because of increasing taa’vos and hana’os, and the irony of your bringing this in in a thread in which you are defending watching movies has not escaped me.
One should look at the Teshuva himself as posted by DaasYochid before.
The word is “compare”, and I’m not comparing pritzus with kashrus, I’m comparing it with tarfus.
What is wrong with a PG movie where the woman are modestly dressed and there is no overtly pritzisdick themes?
You haven’t shown me such a teshuvah, and witty though it may be, there’s truth to it.
no overtly pritzisdick themes
Subtle pritzus is okay for you?
What is wrong with a PG movie where the woman are modestly dressed and there is no overtly pritzisdick themes?
According to the MPAA, in PG films “there could be some profanity, some violence, or brief edited, however there will not be any drug use in a PG film.”
That’s PG!! Not PG-13. PG. You hear that? No drug use. Gevaldik! Just, y’know, a bissel profanity and edited. No more than that, chas v’shalom. Did you read that? Read it again. (Even G allows a minimal amount of violence.)
Now, again, in any movie from the last 50 years in which women appear in, you tell me how many of your fingers you need to use to count in how many of them all the women were dressed tznius all the time. “Modestly dressed” you ask? Modestly dressed according to Betty Crocker or modestly dressed according to halacha?
You could make a case for this one, but he’s clearly saying it because of increasing taa’vos and hana’os, and the irony of your bringing this in in a thread in which you are defending watching movies has not escaped me.
Yes, but movies don’t cause lung cancer, smoking does.
P.S. I didn’t write “edited”. The PG description was so bad that it was the mods who decided even the description of PG is unfit to publish!
Smoking causes lung cancer in a minority of smokers.
Movies cause neshomo cancer in all viewers.
Not all movies are bad.
Not all movies are bad.
Uncle Moishy is okay.
Congrats Shopping!!! Great work fighting the Yetzer Hora & keep it up!
You do know it takes 40 days to break a bad habit, right? So yes YAY you’ve passed the halfway point for that! Although the urge doesn’t quite disappear, it definitely gets easier with time. Good luck again!
Smoking causes lung cancer in a minority of smokers.
One should look online for the studies done with cancer and smoking and see how smoking increases the risk of lung cancer and has other risks involved.
Have you ever seen a picture of a guy smoking out of the hole in his neck because he can’t stop? Have you ever seen the terrible pictures of lung cancer and what smoking does to you? Anyone to start smoking now is an idiot. If one already started and is unfortunately addicted, should seek out help and not despair. But to start smoking now-stupidest thing you can do.
It’s not a good idea to smoke. In fact, it’s a very bad idea.
I want to make clear, since it is before Yom Kippur, that nothing I wrote here was intended to pasken, and that anything I discussed was just talking in learning. As seen by the different kashas against me, most of what I said may not have a solid backing in the Poskim and if anybody relies on anything I said here is making a big mistake since I am not a posek nor anywhere close to being one (and even if I was, I was not intending to pasken.)
Besides, there could be other issues with movies besides pritzus that was not enumerated.
Gmar Chasima Tova
PS There are reports that Rav Reuven Feinstein shlit”a holds that had his father been alive now, he would have assered. One should be very wary before being somech on Rav Moshe’s opinion that smoking is mutar under certain circumstances.
One should ask a Rav before he decides to smoke. And if one is, unfortunately, already smoking he should speak to a Rav to see what action to take.
I dont know why you woke up by yom kippur. an acquaintance of mine saw your heter and started amoking and now he cant run so fast.
One should ask a Rav before he decides to smoke.
I don’t think it’s any of my business if the Rav decides to smoke.
DaasYochid- i wont get into any halachic arguments but how can you say that EVERYONE
who watches movies doesn’t look away when a girl comes up how would YOU know this?
Oh, you think it’s normal for people to look away?
I want to make clear, since it is before Yom Kippur, that nothing I wrote here was intended to pasken, and that anything I discussed was just talking in learning. As seen by the different kashas against me, most of what I said may not have a solid backing in the Poskim and if anybody relies on anything I said here is making a big mistake since I am not a posek nor anywhere close to being one (and even if I was, I was not intending to pasken.)
Besides, there could be other issues with movies besides pritzus that was not enumerated.
Now you tell me? For the past six months I’ve been relying on your psak.
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