teenagers drinking on purim

Beruria would tell you that you used too many words. You could have asked
teenagers to drink? or
to drink excessively?

Teenagers don’t follow shulchan aruch? What about kiddush, cos shel bracha, arba cosos?

@Siuuu, if they go to the troller yeshiva or are a member of the troller chasidus then they can.
If they are just stam sock puppets or trolls then they can not.

I guess I’m one of those yidden who doesn’t take my halachic obligations seriously. I have never been drunk in my life (on Purim or otherwise) and have no intention of doing so on this coming Purim or any other.

If that makes me a rasha, so be it.

The Wolf

Daas baalei batim is “hepech” of daas torah(rav chaim brisker), so if you’re an average jew, just flip what you consider to be common sense and you’re probably thinking in the way the Torah want you to.

Typical Joseph style – punch with the right but forget the rest of the story.
The places that tell boys to get drunk Ad Dlo Yada ALSO tell them that drinking at night is NOT included in the mitzvah, they must be AD dlo yada so they don’t inadvertently curse mordechai, they don’t pass out and miss maariv, and they are sober enough to daven respectfully and with kavana by nightfall.

This thread contains the usual stupidity that gets repeated here annually. We read comments about being “machmir” to get drunk, as if the Rem”o and the Mishnah Brurah are finding loopholes. Then we hear about how the gedolei Yisroel who openly condemn the inebriation are in error, while the rest of the year, they bow on their knees to the same Daas Torah. And, as mentioned earlier, the subject of pikuach nefesh is completely ignored. The biggest trouble with these discussions is that the obvious message of drinking in moderation or to drink responsibly is considered blaphemous, even though it comes from Gedolei Poskim, Hatzoloh, medical professionals, and other experts in the fields of chinuch and addictions. Articles, presentations by video, podcast, etc. are considered entertaining, but ignored when it comes to following them in real life. Hypocrisy fares quite well, and the violators claim that this is “halacha”.

I have yet to hear of these same plastered machmirim extending themselves to shower more matanos lo’evyonim. No, ‘cuz that’s not halacha. Sorry, friends, but halacha is not what you want it to be, but what it is. And I turn to our leaders who shun the shikruso shel Lot emphatically. When drunk, one cannot engage in Avodas Hashem. So says the Rambam. Wanna talk halacha? Start with what the greatest poskim of our history told us. Then how about the Gedolei Yisroel who are a beacon of light in our dark golus.

@Reb E, if we take the letters T, R,O,L, and L its spells TROLL!

“I don’t identify with any community.”

Wolf: Repent O’Sinner. (Just goading you, sorry)

Seriously, every Yid must belong to a community. Please join a Yiddishe kehila/community ASAP that you will consider yourself part of and bound to follow.

warning to those from Lemberg and Chelm who are machmir on drinking – this year you can’t fulfil it on Stoli from moris ayn. It is actually owned by Laplandians but amei haaretz think it is m’Rashayim.

TLIK: Are you taking it upon your shoulders to condemn the Gedolei Poskim who rule there’s a chiyuv to get stone drunk on Purim?

Note that, rightfully, no one objects to any of the Poskim who rule one can fulfill the obligation with something less than stone drunk, such as with some extra sleep etc., or those that legitimately follow those shittos.

But on the same token, no one has the right to condemn the Gedolei Hador and Roshei Yeshivos, both contemporary and of yesteryear, who pasken an obligation to get drunk, and whom publicly get completely drunk themselves every Purim and advise their bochorim and adherents to do the same.

There she goes again with her veibeshel “Torah”.

There is a Mitzva of Hocheach Tochiach. “Rabbi, didn’t you teach us…” I have seen Rabanim conduct themselves contrary to Halacha on ocassion. Rabbis who “pasken” that getting stone drunk in a manner clearly against Halacha is ok should be confronted In the manner set forth by Chachamim. Unfortunately there are many minhagim that are observed which are entirely against Halacha and common sense. That doesn’t make them right.

ujm:

Save your accusations for those who deserve it. I do NOT condemn anybody. The Torah world today uses the Mishna Berurah as its basic guide to Shulchan Aruch. Yes, halacha often has dissenting opinions, and אלו ואלו דברי אלקים חיים. No one challenges that. I am not worried about those whose drinking is simply and only to follow halacha. I utterly abhor those who get wasted just because they consider it a mitzvah and are honestly doing it for their own hedonistic reasons. And those who believe that they are being “machmir” are nothing better than fools. Ad delo yoda does NOT mean to lose one’s mind. That is a blasphemous translation, and is found nowhere is our poskim. שכרותו של לוט is referred to in the Mishnah and the Rambam as תועבה. I am not against the mitzvah to drink on Purim. I am against its exploitation, and the extremes of drunkenness should be shunned by everyone with a Torah value system. That’s what I condemn, and I do so because our greatest Torah leaders of many generations have done that.

So when you’re ready to make accusations, fiind someone who is blasphemous for a target. Meanwhile, the mitzvos of Emunoh (as in אנכי ה’ אלקיך) remain in permanent status, and I will NOT obliterate my ability to think and be mevatel that fundamental mitzvah.

CS, what are you saying, it spells TROLL?

The gemora says that Vashti retorted to Achashverus, you were a stable boy to my father, Balshatzar, the grandson of Nebuchadnetazar. My father drank a thousand glasses of wine and he did not become drunk but you drank one glass of wine and became drunk. Maybe, to tie the two retorts of Vashti, my father was reach so he could afford wine, drank a lot and became immune to its effects whereas you were a stable boy who could not afford wine, did not become immune to it and become drunk.

What I meant is that when a person with daas baalei batim finds himself at odds with learned people, and his common sense tells him that he’s right, chances are that he’s wrong – not always, but especially if he sees that the Torah community as a whole thinks differently, he should ask himself….are my thoughts the product of my learning? If so, how much more does my work environment/college/media consumption impact my “common sense” and my hashkofa? Rav chaim’s words are much more relevant nowadays than when he said it.

I understand its part of their shtick to to make the most outrageous comments that can pass muster with the mods but would some of these tzadikim encouraging yungerleit to get “stone drunk” on Purim be happy to read a story about some teen falling off a balcony and seriously injuring himself or c’v driving the wrong lane on the highway and killing several people?? You can troll about women learning talmud but I simply don’t get the insanity of wrapping yourself in halacha and mindlessly promoting intoxication even one night a year.

Is there any source in halacha that says that the mitzvah of getting drunk on Purim is exclusively for men. Women and girls need outlets too. Many times we have much more stressful lives so if there is a mitzvah that gives us an excuse to get drunk, please tell us.

Why does it not say to be drunk until one is not able to differentiate between Vashti and Esther? Maybe you really have to be drunk as explained above from the Iyun Yaakov.

Is it just that we don’t have to fulfill the mitzvah but we could if we want or is it prohibited for women to do the mitzvah? If it is a prohibition for women, why? We are obligated in the other mitzvos of Purim so why should this be any different?

@the kneidel and AviraDeArah

These sources are saying that it’s assur? Or that there’s just no mitzvah? I never heard that it’s assur for women to get drunk (privately at least)

I lost the count – how many votes for or against stone-drinking. I am for and against Avira’s notion of turning around “common sense”. On one hand, my father A’H used to say similarly “if majority is for this, this is (probably) a wrong thing to do”. [not to reject, but to investigate].

On the other hand, depends how you define “common sense”. It indeed could be based on assimilation of foreign ideas and wrong as described, but sometimes common sense (aka “peshita”), when well grounded in facts and logic, is a good defense against pilpul that can lead you afar. Or a shorter version by R Twersky: hard to heal a smart alcoholic, who fools himself.

In this case, if one prefaces his halakhic pilpul with middos and detrech eretz, then you can easily conclude that it is very possible to fulfil mitzvos of Purim without getting drunk, and given the negatives, one should do exactly that. Then, you don’t need to throw Sh’A quotes at your learned teen, but just tell him – continue being a mench.

“On a more (slightly) serious note, you’ve got to be really, really drunk to get to ad d’lo yoda.”

Correct. And there’s the widely accepted and followed Psak Halacha that that’s exactly what one is required to do every Purim.

Despite TLIK’s false insinuation that those following this Psak Halacha do so for “hedonistic “reasons*.

“Yes, it is assur for women to get drunk.”

Even privately? Source?