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Is there a large percentage of frum Jews that wears techeiles?
Large? Larger than what?
Negligible in what context.
I realized that.
My question really was what you consider to be a significant percentage.
If it is 5%? 15%? 25%?
What is your threshold?
In any event, in my circles, it is 0%
I have seen people wearing it occasionally.
I don’t think it would qualify as a revolution, because the percentage seems to be relatively static. After some 100 years of knowing about these things, the amount of people using them does not seem to be growing. At least to me.
Yes. There is.
Well, people in the same circles often have the same or similarly holding rabbis.
In my experience I have seen many religious zionists wear techelet, while yeshivish people generally do not. Interestingly, Rav Pinchas Sheinberg, who wears many pairs of tzitzit tied in different ways, in order to make sure that he is wearing a pair that is tied the correct way, does not wear any pairs of techelet.
Breslov and Zilberman wear techeiles along with certain National Religious.
I don’t think he said that wearing techeiles is a zionist thing, but that generally they are the ones to wear it.
The exceptions that I know of are Breslov and I guess Radziners.
It’s Zionist b/c it’s blue and white.
First of all, it is generally accepted that techeiles will not return until Moshiach comes, and they ascribe messianic significance to the State of Israel
Secondly,not one of the Gedolim wear techeiles, which makes it a non-starter to most normative Chareidim. Mizrachi believe in “independent thinking” and are less dependent on the Gedolim.
If it’s not a zionist thing then why are they generaly the ones to wear it?
Perhaps your questions should be directed to Zionist World News. I imagine that the answer lies somewhere alongside what double standard and hello99 said.
“generally accepted that techeiles will not return until Moshiach comes”
Please provide sources for this.
The Radzyners and Breslov wear a different color of techelet than the religious zionists: theirs is made from a squid, which was researched by the Radzyner Rebbe, Gershon Henoch Leiner in the 1800s. Later, in the early 1900s, Rav Yisroel Herzog, who was the chief Rabbi of Ireland, decided that the techelet comes from the Murex Trunculus snail. Even today, you can see people wearing both colors, which are visibly different. The Murex Trunculus techelet is considerably more expensive.
IOW, even amongst the techeilis wearers there are multiple opinions of what techeilis is, each opinion excluding the others. And the most common and prevalent opinion is that all these mutually exclusive opinions of what is techeilis, are incorrect and thus it shouldn’t be worn.
That shows a level of am ha’artzus that I can only see coming from a yeshiva bochur.
Itche: That’s a little harsh, don’t you think?
“Second, the fact that gedolim don’t do it is a kasha on them, not on the techeiles.”
your level of apikorsus is exceedingly disturbing.
“it is a kasha on them” – WHAT?!?!?!? who do you think you are, better than gedolei torah? what do you know already?!
mods – this is a mitzvah – during a rabbinical meeting about the flatbush eiruv, one “rabbi” stood up and said Rav Moshe [ZT”L] is a rabbi and i am a rabbi. we disagree. Another rabbi immediately stood up and challenged him publicly and loudly – “how many prakinm are there in maseches eiruvin?” – the offending rabbi, needless to say, was silent. It is a mitzvah to stand up for the kavod of gedolim and assur to stand idly by while people dare disgrace them, kol shekain in public!!
thanks mods!!
“There are numerous kashas on both Murex Trunculus and Cuttlefish techeiles.”
could you give some examples?
could you give some examples?
Well, a very basic question, without knowing anything about the issue, is that they cannot both be tcheiles. So each party clearly holds the other is in error.
In the recent dafei yomi Gemara, we learned that the “strings” can be almost any color. Should those that use supposed “techeiles” be attacked if they chose to wear blue-dyed strings?
The color of the beged (that the tzitzis is attached to) is usually white.
Suppose you dye the whole beged with the techeiles. Do you still need to dye the string?
A very good overview of the techelet written by the organization that makes the murex trunculus techelet can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/techelet
Full disclosure: I wear Murex Trunculus techelet
avi e
Sorry to be the grammar police, but I believe it was Rav Yitzchak Herzog, not Rav Yisroel,
Patur Aval Assur
Thanks!
I tried to phrase my statement as delicately as possible, but I’m not so surprised at the reactions. I will try to reply calmly to the comments.
Josh: “generally accepted” does not need a source and is not necessarily true, however it is the perception of many people.
ItcheSrulik: I never said any Mitzva was abrogated and do not understand your comment. I’m all in favor of independent thinking, but Halacha l’Maaseh requires a reality check, and if NO Gedolim agree, obviously your thought process is faulty.
Patur: Instead of calling me a liar without any supporting evidence, please name a Gadol who wears techeiles. A partial list of those who do NOT includes: HaRabbonim R Elyashiv, R Scheinberg, R Shteinman, R Kaneivsky, R Vozner, R Korelitz, R Yosef, R Belsky, R Heineman, R Kaminetsky, R Forscheimer, R Roth, R Bick, and the Admorim of Satmer, Belz, Vizhnetz, Ger, Bobov, Novominsk, Boyan, Stolin, and dozens of other Poskim, Roshei Yeshivos and Rebbes. If I omitted anyone I sincerely apologize, but even if you can name a Gadol who does wear techeiles (and I’d rather avoid the debate “who is a Gadol”), he is certainly batel b’shishim.
According to R Nissan Kaplan’s shiur on this inyan, there are actually many rabbbanim who do where tcheiles including
Rav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg- ( he called his son to find out and was told that some of his tzitzis are tcheiles)
Rav Zalman Nechemiah Goldberg
And Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky told a well known rav ( who shall remain anonymous) that if he learns it up and thinks it is tcheiles than he should where it btzinah.
Rav Chaim Kanievsky said it is like dam chamor and it is worthless but can’t hurt.
Rav Elyashiv in a mefursam Teshuvah (kovetz teshuvas chelek 1 siman 2) says although there is many proofs to this [murux] tcheiles we could still be choshed that in later doros it will get disprooved, like the radzhiner.
?? ?? R nissan kaplans shiur ( can be found online in halachah 5770-55-tzitzis-2-techeles.mp3 (31.02 megs) )
I personally where this tcheiles and so does my father and brother. I am not mizrachi . But the reason it is popular amongst the mizrachi crowd, is probably because the murux was decided as the chilazon over 70 years ago by the cheif rabbi (who then was actually a rabbi in Ireland) Reb Yitzchak Isaac Halevi Herzog ZT”L. [ who was held of in the chareidi circles] He had many proofs but could not figure out why it was not blue but rather purple. Than 20 years ago it was discovered that if you leave it in the sun for a half hour it turns blue.
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