- This topic has 151 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
why do you know this stuff, Jay??
10 is correct
kiruvwife, where is divrei hayamim referred to as sefer hayichus?
Here’s one: which sefer of the Torah is referred to as “sefer hayashar”, and where is it referred to this way?
This is not a quiz type question but it is a question on Tanach.
Esav sold the bechorah to Yaakov. My question is how Yaakov able to accept this? There is a concept of not bieng allowed to sell something for more than 1/6 of its market value. So how could Yaakov accept it for more than Esav would be allowed to sell it, wouldnt he be allowing Esav to commit an aveirah? The bchorah was worth way more than a bowl of lint soup.
aussieboy, who determines value? to esav it wasn’t worth all that much. and what would you call “market value?” the concept of bechora and working in the bais hamikdash wasn’t exactly widespread.
Jay, yocheved was married to someone else before amram? i mean, other than being married to amram twice.
aussieboy- the Eben Ezra says that Yitzchok was poor therefore the lentil soup was something that had very high value. I don’t know the whole thing but you can look it up in the Eben Ezra.
Dr. Pepper noted that today (3.14) is pi day. Where in tanach does one find an approximation of pi?
aussieboy, I think the torah was given after, no such commandment at that point 🙂
I heard this one awhile back and still don’t know the answer: There are 4 couples in Tanach where the husband and wife have the same initial. I’ve only figured out Na’ama/ Noach and Aharon HaKohein/ Elisheva. Anyone know the remaining 2?
I think JM is right, and also suggest Achashvairosh and Esther as the fourth (in which case 3 of the 4 couples begin with aleph).
JM, I’m puzzled by your last question because, like moish, I didn’t know Yocheved was married to anyone but Amram.
Eldad and Meidad. Yocheved had them in between the two marriages to Amram.
Aussie: one of the meforshim, forgot who, says that the bowl of lentils was not the payment for the bechora, Yaakov paid cash in addition.
how can she go back to amram if she was married in between? or are you gonna tell me it’s because they didn’t get the torah yet?
moish, you got it!
time out. the reason amram and yocheved divorced was so that they don’t have any more kids because of the situation in mitzrayim. so what was accomplished by yocheved marrying another guy and have two more kids?
plus that means that she divorced the in between guy to go back to amram because of miriam’s nevuah.
and don’t forget that moshe and aron were only three years apart. and miriam was in between, no? so it sounds like the years were really tight there…
**edited**
yeah i’m not getting this…
anyone have any answers??
There is a machlokes regarding when Yocheved married Elizaphan bar Panach who became the nasi of Shevet Zevulun. The issues that everyone has with How could she marry someone in between her remarrying Amram are valid.
So, Rashi in I believe Rosh Hashana, says that she married him after Amram passed away.
Da’as Zekainim miBa’alei Tosfos is quoted as saying that Amram divorced Yocheved (his aunt) after the halachos of incest were taught and that’s when Elizaphan married her.
There are also those who hold that Eldad and Meidad were neither brothers nor related to Moshe.
anon-sefer hayashar is Sefer Bereishis and is referred to as such I believe in Yehoshua and Shmuel. I think it’s because the Avos are referred to as yesharim…I think.
kiruvwife, that is correct. Earlier you wrote that Divrei Hayamim is also called sefer hayichus. Where is it referred to this way?
In the repetition of the weekday Shmoneh Esrei, the Chazan will mention 2 pairs of Grandfather-Grandson
1. Avraham- Yaakov
What is the second pair?
Adam, Enosh
Well done Squeak!!
Who in Tanach if you spell their name backwards defines who they are? for example Noach is Chein because Noach matza chein beynei Hashem. I think ther are at least 2 more.
anon-i’m working on getting the source-I remember learning it though, so hopefully will come up with it soon.
well, I haven’t had success in finding a credible source. I found it though in a book of questions without a source quoted, so l’maysa I can’t say with certainty that it is accurate. If I do find a more credible source I’ll post it bli neder.
Another question-Did Binyomin know if Yosef was alive? If yes, then why didn’t he share this information with Yaakov to relieve his suffering?
he knew he wasn’t supposed to say. if hashem wanted yakov to know, he would have told him himself. (never mind that yakov didn’t get nevua the whole 22 years because he was in aveilus and nevua only comes when a person is b’simcha…)
Jay- Yup that’s one of them! There is still one more.
kiruv wife- I don’t think Binyamin knew. There’s a Rashi that all 10 of his sons were named l’zecher Yosef in some manner. If he knew Yosef was alive, why would he have done this?
i’m trying to remember when he knew. but it was for sure before the other brothers knew.
moish, Yosef revealed himself to Binyamin before he revealed himself to the other brothers, but this was during their last trip to mitzrayim.
kiruvwife, I think I remember learning that Yitzchok knew that Yosef was alive, but was not able to reveal this to Yaakov because the brothers had sworn all to secrecy.
yitzchok?? i think you meant binyomin. yitzchok was long dead by the time of mechiras yosef.
takka. but i thought yitzchok died before yakov returned to eretz canaan. or was that rivka? i thought both.
It was Rivka. Yaacov met Rivka’s servant (Devora) on the way back, who expired upon telling him the news of his mother’s death. Yitzchak was alive when Yosef was sold, though the Torah makes no overt mention of this.
yeh if i remember correctly (which i obviously don’t) yitzchok isn’t mentioned at all after yakov goes back to canaan. i think it even says he died then – which i guess isn’t in the right place.
yikes! i can’t believe i don’t remember this basic stuff
Regarding Yitzchok-look in the Rashi in Parshas Vayeishev perek lamed zayin, pasuk lamed gimmel. Rashi quotes Bereishis Raba that Yitzchok knew, but did not reveal this information because he said “if HKB”H doesn’t want to reveal it then surely I can’t”. There is also and explanation that the brothers put a curse on whoever would reveal such information to their father and made Hashem part of that ban and curse. Binyomin however I believe was not part of that ban because he was not present.
I finally found my Ishei HaTanach! As PM & JM noted, according to targum Yehonason ben Uziel, Yocheved married Eltzafan ben Panach in between her two marriages to Amram. She then gave birth to Eldad & Medad, so they are Moshe’s older maternal half-brothers.
Missed the edit window–I wanted to add that was the targum on Bamidbar 11:26, where the nevuah of Eldad & Medad is described.
as moish01 already asked, so then what was the point of separating from Amram?? i thought so that more kids would not be born (just to be killed by Pharoah), but then marrying someone else & having sons defeats the purpose!
AOB-rashi holds that she married Eltzafan/Elitzaphan after Amram passed away, and some meforshim hold that Eldad and Medad weren’t even brothers themselves and not related to Moshe.
but does the meforash who said that they were born between explain why she separated from Amram in the first place?
AOB, keep in mind that Amram was the one who chose to separate, because Paroh would kill any baby boys. It was Miriam who told him that by doing so, he was worse than Paroh, since this meant no girls could be born either (which ultimately convinced him to remarry Yocheved). So the separation was not necessarily Yocheved’s choice, and the prospect of having more children wouldn’t stop her from remarrying (and indeed would motivate her to remarry). The question moish asked still stands: How was Yocheved permitted to remarry Amram if she married someone else in between? As kiruvwife noted, this targum is not a universally-held opinion, eilu v’eilu divrei elokim chayim.
kiruv, what you said about yitzchok is kinda hard. yaakov was in aveilus and didn’t get nevua the entire time. so even if hashem was willing to let him know, there’s no way he could have found out through nevua. i’m sure yitzchok knew that.
anon, but that goes back on an old argument. (i don’t remember who said it [maybe kiruvwife??] – it’s on the page before)
when amram and yocheved separated, the entire shevet levi copied them. yocheved was levi’s daughter. you think she would deviate? plus, what shevet was elztafan from?
moish, if yocheved thought amram was wrong for separating, because this meant neither boys nor girls would be born, then perhaps she would marry eltzafan to demonstrate that she disagreed with his reasoning. Just as he felt he had a responsibility, as the leader of the shevet, to demonstrate appropriate behavior for others, so perhaps did she. I am not saying this was necessarily the case (according to targum yehonason), just explaining how your argument can be turned around.
Also, regarding the issue of yocheved being forbidden to amram because she’d married in between, I seem to recall learning that this is not asur from the torah, but was made asur to discourage illicit behavior. If this is true, perhaps this would explain how amram would have been allowed to remarry yocheved even if she’d married someone else in between (especially since her motives would obviously have been l’shaim shamayim).
yea well any time we don’t have a reason for something that was done before the torah was given we just say “oh – before maamad har sini!”
and besides for all that, amram was one of the leaders. does anyone know what shevet eltzafan was from?
if it was levi, he wasn’t supposed to be getting married to anyone.
and either way – even if he wasn’t, who would marry the manhig’s divorcee?? kinda chutzpadik, no? (i don’t mean it the way it sounds, i just don’t know how to phrase it better)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.