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In Los Angeles, we have these flyers that say stop the talking in shul. Do you have those flyers too?
I believe so. I heard people talking about them in shul.
NDGSFT – LOL
I haven’t seen any…what is the content? Just say no?
I think talking in shul is fine- as long as you’re talking to god
Thank you – I exist to give you enjoyment (not really) good shabbos everyone!!!!
talking in shul Only the 2nd urgentest flier albeit exceedingly urgent, both via cell phone or in person.
The urgentest flier is for people to arrive on time, and commence Amidah bTzibur. On time by definition for Shacharis means arriving 5 minutes early, so that you are already clad with Tallis & Tefillin before cantor commences services.
I’ve seen those flyers in shuls around here as well.
Talking during davening is one of my pet peeves. It bugs me to no end when people do it. Yes, I have plenty of things that I’m guilty of, but other than a quick “excuse me” (if I need to someone to move) or “sorry” (if I bump into someone) or something like that, I don’t talk during davening.
On the other hand, I don’t rebuke anyone for doing so either. I remember one time that I did do so and I immediately felt terrible for doing it. After that, I don’t rebuke anyone for that anymore.
The Wolf
the wolf: I would think (if you cannot find another shule to daven at)that if other people talking bothers you so much you should probably stay at home and daven there. There is no mitzvah to put yourself in a situation where you will be frustrated, hate your brothers, and won’t be able to really daven anyway.
hate your brothers
Who said anything about hate? Why are you accusing me of transgressing the commandment to not hate my fellow Jew? Did I use the word “hate” anywhere?
Their conduct annoys me. So does the conduct of my kids sometimes, but I don’t hate them.
The Wolf
The Wolf has bragged that he talks all the time during laining. If he wouldn’t go to to that shul, then who would? (Talk during laining, that is)
Wolf what do you rebuke people for?
For rebuking him unnecessarily.
For rebuking him unnecessarily.
Despite the fact that I did so above, I normally don’t. Feel free to rebuke me for anything, real or imagined.
The Wolf
Wolf what do you rebuke people for?
The bottom line is that even though it bothers me greatly, I no longer ask people to stop talking in shul. I just sit there and stew.
Don’t like it? Well, I can’t please everyone.
The Wolf
Some people I just don’t chap why they bother coming to shul at all they just stay outside and hock nonstop all davening you’re not fooling anyone just go home
They are fooling their wives.
“Why are you accusing me of transgressing the commandment to not hate my fellow Jew?”
I thought it was pretty obvious that I did not mean you were over the issur of hating your fellow Jew. I am saying you are bound to dislike these people who ruin your davening. who wouldn’t dislike such people and how far is the barrier between strongly dislike and hate or very annoying and hate? If the president or rov of the shule does not shush people up it means that the shule is not suitable for you, you deserve better.
I heard this from a Rabbi. Not a Gadol,just a pulpit Rabbi. He was explaining about talking in Davening and how to stop it.
Klopping on the table was not the solution.
He basically admitted that most people talk because they are bored and the words dont mean anything especially in a foreign language.The longer the davening and the more breaks , like between aliyot the more likely there is going to be talking.
He had suggested somewhat speeding up the davening and making it more interesting like more singing. Of course some here are going to say here what is more interesting that talking to hashem, but the reality is people dont nessasarily think that or at least act that way
He had suggested somewhat speeding up the davening and making it more interesting like more singing.
Singing, talking, what’s the difference?
In other words it depends here what your goal is. If you just want people not to talk, then sure, make davening so fast they don’t have time to talk and sing so much they can’t hear themselves talk.
But if the point is that people should daven, then…
zahavasdad,
The longer the davening and the more breaks , like between aliyot the more likely there is going to be talking.
I have been to an early minyan where efficiency is the rule – davening is at a fast, “keep it moving!” clip, breaks are minimized, and there is no speech. Shabbos morning davening is usually completed in an hour and a half, and there is a nice kiddush afterwards with plenty of time to catch up with friends. Yet people still talk during the davening!
I think those talking in shul believe in Hashem, and they know what the tefillos are. I think it’s possible that they don’t fully understand how important their tefillos are – that they mean something and have an effect. That, plus a lack of situational awareness and sensitivity to others.
kedushaskohen,
There was nothing in WolfishMusings’ post indicating that he felt any hatred towards anyone at all. On the contrary, I think it is correct to feel upset or annoyed by talking in shul. It is wrong, and it harms the tefillos of everyone there.
That said, I think your point that it isn’t best to sit and stew about the talking in silence is a good one. There is a large spectrum of choices available, however, between confronting the talkers directly (which WolfishMusings has stated he does not want to do) and davening alone at home. While it doesn’t solve the problem of talking, perhaps the easiest way to solve the issue of stewing is to change where one sits in the shul. Two people’s experiences at the same minyan could be quite different, with one in the back suffering from numerous talkers and another in front hearing nothing but the tefillos.
When someone is talking Shul, it prevents ME from concentrating on my tefilos. They can always walk outside the building, and lose their own zechus of tefilah sadly, but they have no right to cause me to lose mine. When I am speaking to Hashem, I don’t need to hear about football scores or someone’s loshon hara.
I did not discern any hate in Wolf’s comments. I am as frustrated as he, in this matter. If nothing more, it is a lack of kovod beis haknesses, and even a lack of self-respect. A person who believes himself to be a holy being created b’Tzelem Elokim, would not act with such a lack of derech eretz while in Shul (or anywhere, for that matter)
I know of a shul in Flatbush where 2 men attend every Shabbos, don’t bother opening sidurim and just sit at the table and talk the entire time. Until I saw this I didn’t know that men could talk as much as old women. My theory is that they go to shul to please their wives, with no thoughts off davening.
Their burdons of avairos will follow them to the olam emes.
The saddest thing was, when I motioned to a talker nicely to stop, and he starts talking louder and yelling about the chutzpa of me telling him to be quiet and that I am making more noise then he is. Then he tells me to go to a different minyan if I want to daven, and told me a shul is not just made for davening but also to socialize. Sad.. very sad
There is a distinct persistent minority who consider shul to be their social outlet.
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