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Talking during davening. Wasnt a special Mi Shebaeirach composed for those who dont talk during davening, composed after Tach vTat by the Tosfos Yom Tov? Am I confusing several things?
Regarding learning during davening. How would it look to people if in the middle of Seder someone walked up to the Bimah and started davening. Why is it any more acceptable if in the middle of Tefilla someone stands near the Bima looking into a gemara. There is a time for tefilla and a time for learning. Why do we try and “chap” both at the same time.
About a year ago I heard repeated in the name of R” Chaim Kanievsky (I have no way to verify this statement, and apologies o the Rav if he never said it) that being Maaver Sedrah during chazoras HaShatz is a Mitzvah Habaa BiAveirah.
my point, clumsily stated, was that ones individual Kavannah is influenced by the Tzibur
Perhaps. Perhaps not. It could also be influenced negatively. Ever had your concentration broken by someone moving a chair, dropping a siddur, etc.?
The Wolf
Wasnt a special Mi Shebaeirach composed for those who dont talk during davening, composed after Tach vTat by the Tosfos Yom Tov?
Yep. My rav of my shul says it (while holding the sefer torah) every shabbos.
There is a time for tefilla and a time for learning. Why do we try and “chap” both at the same time.
Indeed. So my son taught me (unintentionally).
The Wolf
im talking about a spiritual connection
I have been thinking about this and coincidentally began learning the Kitzur from the beginning.
Where I live there’s only one regular minyan, so it is what it is, and what it is, is a long way from the standard found in the Kitzur. There is quite a bit of talking and other less desirable behavior – but I try to look at it from the glass-half-full perspective and appreciate that ten Jews in this small community show up everyday and daven at all.
But, I dream of a minyan where it is like the Kitzur describes.
I can only imagine what it would be like during the Amidah if the minyan were standing and listening attentively to the Chazzan and responding Amein to each blessing. I can’t see how it would not raise my own kavanah throughout the davening.
Does this kind of minyan exist? If so where?
I don’t want to give personal information, but I was fortunate to live in a town where I davened at two different places, and in neither one was there talking during davening or laining.
These places exist. You just have to look for them.
I was at a shiur last week where the Rav said that talking results when people do not truly feel that tefilah is their opportunity to communicate with Hashem .
We need more practical advice in this area.
There are things an individual can do and things that can be done on the communal level.
Shabbos morning is most problematic. Later in the service is always worse.
An early Hashkama minyan that takes under 2 hours helps a lot.
Sitting closer to Mizrach should help.
At the communal level: Do not allow the later half of the service to get “bogged down”.
Our shul has eliminated Mi Shebayrachs and replaced them with donation cards.
lesschumras, I think thats because you always have the opportunity to talk to Hashem. It has its benefits and its downsides. The downside is that you can stall for this moment, because you can always daven.
My biggest downfall is having someone to talk to. I always found that when I am in a shul where I don’t know people, its easy not to talk. If a friend or family member comes, its much harder.
We can not rely upon Yiras shamayim alone to prevent sin.
There are countless examples.
The Rabbinic enactments for Shabbos are a clear example.
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