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And yes the trinity and the literal am haaretzishe interpreatation does contradict yichud Hashem al pi halacha, and one who believes in that…
Yup. 🙂
It’s not a Zohar issue, it’s an understanding of their concept of the trinity.
How do you think the Pope, for example, would explain it?
The way mainstream christianity (with exclusion of some protestant groups) would explain the trinityis that there is one God but he takes on three literal forms chas veshalom that is avodah zarah mamesh!
is one God but he takes on three literal forms
Explain please.
Perhaps the athanasian creed?
Ummm I don’t know if this is allowed on ywn 🙂 but why don’t u just read wikipedia if u r so interested?
I hate to make this suggestion, but perhaps since the Rambam lived in Arab countries he was more free to say kushta demilsa and call xianity avoidah zarah, but the French Toisfos were censured by the xians ? as France is a christian country (or was now atheist and Muslim :))
Tam Mahu Omer wrote,
“It is avodah zarah to daven to something even if you believe its just and intermediary.”
Not true. We have prayers to angels in our own liturgy.
Ben Torah,
You ignore the position of HaMeiri, which was supported by (among others) Rabbi Y. Y. Weinberg z’tz’l and Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l.
Tam:
Never said it wasn’t Avoda Zara.
Just arguing as for the reason why.
If you don’t care to discuss, that is OK with me.
Tam Mahu Omer wrote,
“I hate to make this suggestion”
Don’t worry, many others have made that suggestion before you.
An even more significant issue is that Orthodox Christian Churches are among the largest private landowners in Eretz Yisrael.
Still more significant is that the embrace of political evangelical support by Jews has been interpreted by non-evangelical Christians as chas v’shalom an endorsement of evangelical Christianity over other forms.
Dr. Hall:
Most of those who “Daven to angels” will tell you they only want the angel to carry the prayer to the Throne (if they are not simpletons).
i havent read the whole post sorry. gavra i dont mind discussing it. i just hope the moderators dont mind. i dont really get your question of pleaseb explain. what was bothering you? and charlie hall, we do not chas veshalom pray to angels. if you r talking about the slicha malachei rachamim , reb chaim volozhinert says not to say it. and even the ones that say it farenfer themseles. and go ahead pray to the sun, chas veshalom. its ossur. in fact the rambam says thats how a”z started by people praying to malachim and stars as emissiaries and stuff.
gavra,
And Christians will give you a similar answer when they pray to *their* intermediaries.
gavra wrote,
“Explain please.”
I personally think Christian theology is inexplicable.
I gave the best answer I was told, but YWN doesn’t allow it through. Understandable.
Tam:
It is what makes Xtianity Avoda Zara.
I’m going to agree with you that it should not be discussed here (after I deleted a few paragraphs regarding it).
As Dr. Hall said, “I personally think Christian theology is inexplicable”.
But I would rather make fun of it.
Take a look at all the Slamim that are in pawn shops. Or how even they decided in ’64 to turn over the whole religion 🙂
They don’t really believe in it themselves.
“charlie hall, we do not chas veshalom pray to angels. if you r
talking about the slicha malachei rachamim , reb chaim volozhinert says not to say it”
That indeed is what I was referring to. You just can’t pilpul away the fact that it is a prayer directed towards angels. I personally follow R’Chaim on this, but most people do say it.
” Or how even they decided in ’64 to turn over the whole religion “
Their business, not ours. Read Rov Solveitchik’s “Confrontation”.
Wolf,
I generally appreciate your postings, but come on! The YW Coffee Room is not a bes din as you surely know.
So what’s the point of your message? If the “psak” of the Coffee Room is that either you quit your job or you’re chayav malkos what will you do?
He’s curious. He’s trying to start an interesting halachic discussion. Presumably he will ask his own Rav on his own time.
Most of Rechavia (and much of downtown Yerushalyim) pays land rent to the church. But I think we should steer clear from christian theology and just treat it as shituf; this is a totally open board. The shviggers can figure it out themselves.
Another interesting A”Z shilah:
Alternate side parking is suspended today in NYC because of a Hindu religious festival. Are we permitted to park where we would normally not be permitted to, or is that taking advantage of the existence of an A”Z festival?
I wouldn’t.
“is not meant to be taken by us commoners literally” courtesy of TamMHO. Of course this doesn’t stop many who should know better from publsihing snippets of Zohar wherever they please, including in the siddur.
Case in point: I shop for shabbos in the shuk mahane Yehuda, where a collector for a Kabbalist Yeshiva collects on frequent rounds that coincide with my shopping. I figure they learn standard Torah there, so I give a five, ten or twenty shekel donation. He obviously gets generally less, because he is more than happy to see me. He always offers a receipt, which I refuse, saying receipts are from shamayim. I also refuse the leaflets he always offers for shabbos reading, claiming I have enough to read, and I hurry away. Once he caught me sitting down at a local Mincha, and I accepted the leaflet. I found in it a small piece, a quote from Zohar, on a pasuk in Emor that applied a clear reference to Hashem to a certain person. To me, the commoner, this seems like outright kefira if nothing worse. I need a shayla chochom about continuing to give this mosad tzedaka.
Okay, Wolf, in that case, I don’t think you need to leave your job. 🙂
Based upon some of what’s posted here, I hope there are no heimishe people who don’t pay their hospital bills at institutions such as St. Luke’s, Lutheran, or Methodist. Could that be the real reason why St. Vincent’s (owned by the Archdiocese of New York) went bust? Just kidding.
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