Superiority

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  • #2274920
    ujm
    Participant

    Is a Kohein superior to a non-Kohein?

    Is a Levi superior to a Yisroel?

    #2274950
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Obviously not, because I trace my ancestry as a Kohen all the way back to Tanach times,
    yet Mr. Common Saychel insults me often, and the moderators allow him to do it.

    When I wrote a comment rebuking Mr. Common Saychel for unfairly insulting
    Rabbi Lazer Brody, my comment was immediately deleted by moderators.

    it would not have been deleted if that was the list of it. Please be honest with yourself.

    #2274952
    lakewhut
    Participant

    No and no. The lesson of yiddishkeit is that there are people with different levels of responsibility who thus have different needs.

    #2274957
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    It says ממזר תלמיד חכם קודם לכהן עם הארץ so I would say no

    #2274958
    akuperma
    Participant

    Especially for work in the Beis ha-Mikdash (no big deal today, but great long term prospects).

    #2274953
    ujm
    Participant

    Is a Yid superior to a non-Yid?

    #2275072
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    Joseph,

    A Jew has the potential to rise above angels or to sink below animals, it all depends on the choices being made. If someone constantly behaves in an arrogant and superior manner that causes chilul Hashem in the eyes of others, it’s would have been better for them not to exist.

    #2275094
    ujm
    Participant

    Is a Talmid Chochom superior to a non-Talmid Chochom?

    Is a Godol HaDor superior to a lesser Talmid Chochom?

    #2275101
    sechel83
    Participant

    How do you define “superior”
    Yidden are one body, some are the head, some are the feet, but the head needs the feet, without them it can’t walk. See Tanya perek 2,30,32.
    We need to respect kohanim because they were chosen to live a higher life, entirely devoted to serve hashem, the rambam writes (end of Seder zrayim) that any yid can elevate himself to live a life like kohanim separate from mondaine things and entirely devoted to serve hashem

    #2275108
    ujm
    Participant

    It says ממזר תלמיד חכם קודם לכהן עם הארץ so I would say no

    coffee addict: That tells you that a Talmid Chochom is superior to a Kohein. But it doesn’t tell you, as you claim, that a Kohein isn’t superior to a non-Kohein who isn’t a Talmid Chochom.

    So granting that a תלמיד חכם is superior to a כהן, would you agree that a כהן is still superior to a non-כהן who is not a תלמיד חכם?

    #2275129
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @ujm
    du host nish bessr tsu ton vi onfangen aza topic ?
    vu iz dain haham enav berosho ?

    #2275202
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Joe,

    If I understand you clearly you’re asking “all things equal is a כהן superior to a non כהן”

    I would say yes because he’s מחויב in more מצוות

    #2275220
    Kuvult
    Participant

    I was taught Hungarian Jews are superior to Eastern European Jews.

    #2275226
    ujm
    Participant

    Is a Melech superior to his citizens?

    #2275246
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    The word “superior” is not appropriate. It implies that one is better by virtue of something that they did not accomplish. Now in terms of yidden/ainom yehudim, the difference is that of absolute substance…not only are they better in every way spiritually, but they are entirly different, as they have a nefesh elokis, imbued with kedushah.

    But among klal yisroel, the differences are more in terms of madregos. A Cohen is on a higher madrega in his creation, but that doesn’t make him superior/better, just like malaachim are higher than people, but people can be “better” and greater than malachim by virtue of their choices.

    Hashem loves all yidden (at their base, absent their choices) equally; he created some with a higher level, such as kohanim, and neshomos of “tzadikim” that the Tanya is maarich on, but those people can also become reshoim; they have that choice. And in shomayim, a mamzer who sanctifies himself will be higher than a person born from tzadikim who didn’t do much with his life. He’s “better” but the tzadik might still be on a different madrega in some ways.

    #2275260
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Square Root Hakohen,

    My issue was never with you, just the people you expect us to be impressed with when you quote them,
    for example, when you quote some New Ager who became a breslover telling me how to run my shabbos sudah, or a 20 something who’s total real-life experience is running a sports league.

    #2275262
    ujm
    Participant

    Avira, you describe a Kohein as being on a higher madreiga than a non-Kohein. Presumably (correct me otherwise) you’d apply the same principle regarding a Talmid Chochom vs. a non-T”C (even though no one is born as a T”C), as well as regarding a Melech vs. citizens. And you’d probably say the same regarding a big T”C versus an average T”C.

    Once you are making a hierarchy between different classes of Yidden being on higher madreigas, would you apply this principle to say that a T”C is on a higher madreiga than a Kohein (for the reason that ‘coffee addict’ cited above)? And how would you place the comparative hierarchy between one category and the others, when comparing a Melech, Talmid Chochom, Kohein and any other similar or other categories of people not yet mentioned above?

    And before other posters here start getting upset over the need of any such hierarchy, in fact it is relevant and necessary as we have to know who to give kadima and honor first; we know we have to give kovod first to a Kohein and a Talmid Chochom and a Melech, etc., but between them and other relevant categories the question is who goes first.

    As far as the “why” these categories are on a higher madreiga than others, ‘coffee addict’ proffered the reason being that because he’s מחויב in more מצוות concerning a כהן. But that point isn’t applicable regarding a תלמיד חכם, who has the chiyuvim as everyone else. What are the reasons you’d explain why the other categories here (Melech, T”C and others) are on a higher madreiga?

    #2275283
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    ״As far as the “why” these categories are on a higher madreiga than others, ‘coffee addict’ proffered the reason being that because he’s מחויב in more מצוות concerning a כהן. But that point isn’t applicable regarding a תלמיד חכם, who has the chiyuvim as everyone else״

    ה judges a person based on his/her level therefore a ת״ח since he knows more is judged stricter than a regular person so your premise isn’t fully correct

    #2275291
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    UJM, that’s not what I meant. I differentiate between inherent qualities/madregos and chosen ones. A talmid chacham is a choice that virtually every jew can make, and it makes them superior to everyone else, as the rambam writes that the tachlis of the world is to serve the talmid chacham.

    Regarding a melech, i don’t think that’s a fair comparison – he has an office…i don’t think that makes him even on a higher spiritual madrega in itself. The opposite is true – a king was chosen BECAUSE of his lofty spiritual accomplishments.

    #2275298
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    The Chiyuv of וקדשתם or of giving honor doesn’t translate right into bring superior. A king is obviously special in his position, but there are Mitzvos that are specifically set to make sure that בלתי רם לבבו.

    I haven’t ever seen that a Kohen has a higher Neshama. On the contrary, it has been mentioned that people are נתגלגל as one in order to end up with all the commandments. So obviously it’s not because of the Neshama. It is an honor to Aharon and his progeny, and the Kohen is tasked with special duties and therefore deserves certain honors. If this causes him to be proud of himself, he is silly. And it’s embarrassing to be proud of what you didn’t accomplish.

    However, he is indeed born into a special position that he should realize is special, and make sure not to ruin the honor of that position. The same goes for any special bloodline, or Yichus.

    #2275296
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    It says kohanim are diligent. The Ben Ish Chai explains on lo yikrechu karcha berasham, they should not tear into the letters before them, before ‘chaf’ ‘yud’ before ‘heh’ daled and before ‘nun’ mem making the word miyad, zerizus.

    #2275628
    g08b
    Participant

    yes a kohen and/or levi are “superior” to yisraelim. if one has a choice of a kohen/levi bentching (zimun) or a yisrael, the kohen/levi has kedima

    #2275654
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Levi when asked by Moshe Rabbenu Mi Lashem Eilai, voluntered,, so they were rewarded.

    #2275706
    yankel berel
    Participant

    I would take the ‘sting’ out of this whole debate with the following :
    We do not live in a one dimensional world .
    Yesh bezeh ma she’ein bazeh. And le’hepach.

    Sometimes we do need to decide on a one-dimensional course of action.
    For example who is first in pidyon shvuyim or birkat hamazon.
    But in real “superiority” we will never know.

    Rashi Psahim 25B [quoting sanhedrin?] ma hazi dami didach sumek tfei – who can know, who HKBH favors more ?
    Even if the other guy is a t’ch . Even if he is gadol hador. Even if he is a Tsadik.
    That is the source that retsiha is yehareg veal yaavor.

    This is a logical reasoning strong enough to deduct a dinei nefashot psak halaha lema’aseh. [!]

    Cf Rambam Hilch Tshuva . Sometimes one avera is shakul neged kama mitsvot. Sometimes the opposite.
    No human can make these heshbonot , only Kel Hogeh Dei’ot [gist of Rambams words]
    .

    #2275892
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Is a YWN coffeeroom writer more superior than some just reading the news on YWN?

    #2276043
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Is Joe a bigger troll than anyone else in the CR? I think that’s an obvious yes.
    Is any normal person superior to a big CR troll?
    Is a person who doesn’t obsess over trying to rank people superior to Joe?

    Avira: “a king was chosen BECAUSE of his lofty spiritual accomplishments.” While this may have been true for Shaul and Dovid, I don’t think that was the case for future kings. Future kings were chosen because they descended from Dovid. There were plenty of kings who were horrible people, yet they still held the halachik status of a king.

    #2276077
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    On the other side, why could not the avos mary the kenanim rather than Lavan’s family who were also no good? Explains the Daroshrs Haran that the kenanim had the bad modos inbred in them. Similarly. maybe the levyim and kohanim had good midos inbread in them.

    #2276140
    ujm
    Participant

    I was once at a shiur by HaRav Avrohom Blumenkrantz zt”l on Shabbos. During the shiur he said he’s glad it was Shabbos thereby he doesn’t have to be worried that he’s being recorded when he says

    If he was worried about it being publicized, why are you trying to publicize it?

     

    #2276734
    ujm
    Participant

    Anonmod: He was worried about it being demonstrably tied to him with a video/audio recording. He wasn’t worried about being unauthoratatively quoted due to the unwanted political heat it would generate. Indeed, he is happy to be so quoted. He said it in a shiur with over 150 random people; and likely in many other shiurim, as well, that I didn’t attend. The truth is the truth and he is and was happy to state this publicly.

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