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I’m visiting a chareidi community in Eretz Yisrael. Despite the almost constant sunniness, I have yet to see a man, woman, or child wearing sunglasses. Why?
It isn’t the most refined mode of eyewear. It may come across as baal gaaivadik.
Who dreams up this nonsense?
I’m davka surprised that they don’t all wear dark glasses just because Rav Ovadia did.
This has already been discussed in the CR:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sunglasses-are-not-tznius
I wear sunglasses on occasion when my eye infection acts up. Not that I need them, per se, but just so that other people don’t have to see my swollen up, infected eye.
I guess it’s just another indication of my moral degradation. 🙁
The Wolf
Maybe they just don’t feel like wearing sunglasses…why assume it has to be some moral opposition to the concept?
It’d be cool if it were the Amish abstaining from sunglasses, but those Jews….
I wear prescription trifocal sunglasses 100% of the time when I am outdoors in the sun. They protect my eyes from harmful ultraviolet rays. I don’t care what any contemporary rabbi says about it and I have Rav Sherirah Gaon to back me up.
“I don’t care what any contemporary rabbi says about it.”
We don’t care what you have to say about it.
“We don’t care what you have to say about it.”
Who is “we”?
I only wear sunglasses on occasion when I drive and the sun is extremely bright. In general, the whole issue is shtus. If it’s protecting someone’s eyes, how did this become a big deal?
Maybe the tznius police need to see where someone is looking and sunglasses may prevent that?
How did we get so crazy?
So some here decided that because he doesn’t see people wearing sun glasses, that there is an issur.
I don’t quite follow the logic in his assumption.
Nor do I understand why it seems that others have now accepted that as fact.
It is cultural, not halachic.
It is cultural, not halachic.
Most new things that people claim are “Halachic” are really cultural anyway. It certainly wouldn’t shock me that sunglasses are unofficially “banned” (i.e. your children will not be allowed into school), even though there is no Halacha involved. Like DY said, it is a cultural thing, and culture often trumps Halacha.
Nisht – For the same reason that women driving, bicycles, metal eyeglasses, and other “non halachic” items have been banned. Another non Halachic ban is expected.
P.S. I am very interested in Dr. Hall’s opinions, even when I disagree (often). He argues from the facts, not by pointing to authority, which (unfortunately, and due to their own actions) loses credibility by the day.
It may have been banned because some will wear sunglasses, especially indoors, so that they can stare and not be observed.
Charlie Hall, R’ Sherira gaon permitted sunglasses? Please explain.
“Another non Halachic ban is expected.”
So it is our bias that is informing your understanding. Ok. That happens to everyone. But this also helps others to understand your biases.
“I am very interested in Dr. Hall’s opinions”
Especially when he doesn’t care about other’s opinions. That he wears sunglasses is not something that I can attest to but it is meaningless in the conversation as to whether people wear sunglasses somewhere else.
“He argues from the facts”
His comments here certainly seem to disprove that.
“Charlie Hall, R’ Sherira gaon permitted sunglasses”
Only while vaccinating children, not all the time. And he also specified wht style lenses and frames to wear when doing so.
So it is our bias that is informing your understanding. Ok. That happens to everyone. But this also helps others to understand your biases.
What is your bias? I know mine is the plethora of non-Halachic Kol Koreis, as well as the B&W uniform, which some claim to be Halachic but are not.
I’m surprised that you have a concern with my comment. You said “So some here decided that because he doesn’t see people wearing sun glasses, that there is an issur”. I agree with you (and DY) that those people are probably wrong, and it is cultural that the OP didn’t see anyone wearing sunglasses.
I wear glasses, all the time. I did not consult my halachic authority as to the style or materials composing the frames. (They are metal, by the way.) It’s not a halachic issue.
I wear clip-on sunglasses over my frames when I go out, especially in the spring, summer, and early fall. There is too much glare to be outside comfortably without them. I did not consult my halachic authority before buying them, because it’s simply not a halachic issue.
It boggles my mind that a Rav or Rebbe would be so involved in deciding that metal frames are OK, but not plastic frames, or vice versa, or that sunglasses are not OK.
GAW,
Your bias is that you assume there was a non halachic ban.
“or that sunglasses are not OK.”
This is called assuming facts that are not in evidence. And this was discussed earlier.
“It boggles my mind that a Rav or Rebbe would be so involved in deciding that metal frames are OK, but not plastic frames, or vice versa”
This was a case of a Rosh Yeahiva talking about the styles of the time, and yes, that would certainly seem to be within the purview of what he would discuss with his talmidim. (Or chassidim).
Is it untznius to be too good-looking? That would give me a problem.
Who dreams up this nonsense?
Not that someone who’s ultimate goal is to arrive at the cemetery having fulfilled his obligations in the most minimal way possible, could possibly understand. But it’s dreamed up by a group of Yiddim with awareness of their debt to The Ribono Shel Olam, who seek to fulfill His will with mesirus nefesh, who have a sensitivity and a feeling for what behaviors belong to the goyish velt, and wish to remain as far away as possible from those mannerisms to bring nachas to The Abishter. Whether they are required to by Halacha or not.
I’m speaking of chumros (a concept that is dear to me, certainly not abhorrent as it seems to be to some) in general. I know very little regarding the viewpoint of any community specifically about sunglasses.
I usually don’t wear sunglasses unless there’s snow.
GAW,
Your bias is that you assume there was a non halachic ban.
Nope, I didn’t assume that, you assumed that I assumed it, when all I did was assumed that other people assumed it 🙂
Go back and re-read my original post on this thread.
I take strong offense at feivel’s insinuation that those who don’t like certain (or too many) Chumros don’t have proper appreciation for what HKBH gave us and don’t want to bring Nachas to Him.
Those who prohibit sunglasses atidim latet et hadin bashamayim . HKBH will want to know why we invented nonsensical sensitivities and obsessed over narishkeit unrelated to Torah. Attaching sunglasses to something the goyim do is utterly ridiculous and insulting to a thinking person and brings no nachas to the Aibishter.
Having said that, I will prove that sunglasses have been permitted by leading poskim.
As you all should know, but as DY has pointed out with hair coloring for men, you don’t and should be forgiven for your am ha’aratzus, there is a machloket between Rav Elyashiv zt”l and Reb Shlomo Zalman zt”l as to the permissibility of wearing lenses that change into sunglasses outside (photochromic lenses) on Shabbat. Rav Elyashiv says “No”,it is Tzove’a. Reb Shlomo Zalman says “muttar”, not Tzove’a. Neither bring up the possibility that Shabbat is irrelevant because even b’chol there is some chashash or other.
Clearly, according to both, it is permitted during the week. Hence, regular sunglasses are permitted during the week and on Shabbat. Hamachmirim will not wear photochromic lenses on Shabbat.
But it’s dreamed up by a group of Yiddim with awareness of their debt to The Ribono Shel Olam, who seek to fulfill His will with mesirus nefesh, who have a sensitivity and a feeling for what behaviors belong to the goyish velt, and wish to remain as far away as possible from those mannerisms to bring nachas to The Abishter
And so they build a Bamah AND bring Korbanos.
?’ ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ???? ????
This is why we have Halachah and a Torah. Hashem told us how we should serve Him. We are not allowed to make up from our own Saychal how to serve Him.
That being said, if there is a Geder as a reasonable (and for that you need a Rov) protection from being Over a real Issur, that would be positive (for example, not owning a smartphone), as long as it is couched as such and not as a stand-alone Issur.
“!” old man – Rav Elyashiv worked for the Tziyonim and Rav Shlomo Zalman held of Hetter Mechirah. We know better and can say it is Assur”!”
(once again, I don’t think anyone said “assur”, but it is outside the cultural norm, like not buying an apartment for your daughter, which can cause someone to be “Yotzei min HaKlal” and Shunned)
old man- well said.
My comment was certain to offend some people. I’m not surprised that Sam was one.
But in any case it should have been clear from my post that I was not addressing my remarks to someone who doesn’t like “certain (or too many) chumros”. Rather to someone who is offended by the concept.
.
feivel: I am not offended by Chumros. Everyone has Chumros (or, to quote someone about the Briker Rov, “He didn’t have any Chumros; he just had a different Ikkar HaDin). I think the insinuation that someone who doesn’t like taking Chumros isn’t interested in making Hashem happy is unfair and wrong.
The problem is, by putting your comment on this thread (even though you qualified it with a second comment), you are lending weight to the notion that there is no such thing as a bad Chumra (of which this certainly is one; I know of several horror stories about this in particular).
What?
“Those who prohibit sunglasses atidim latet et hadin bashamayim “
I haven’t heard anyone who does except for unsubstantiated supposition by the first poster.
“there is a machloket between Rav Elyashiv zt”l and Reb Shlomo Zalman zt”l as to the permissibility of wearing lenses that change into sunglasses outside (photochromic lenses) on Shabbat. Rav Elyashiv says “No”,it is Tzove’a. Reb Shlomo Zalman says “muttar”, not Tzove’a”
I heard the following story that R Ezriel Auerbach’s rebbitzen (R Elyashiv’s daughter) went into a glasses store and the proprietor showed her a pair of photogray glasses. She said “May father says I shouldn’t wear them on Shabbos, but my father in law says I can”
The glasses store owner (who did not know who she was) says, why are you asking your father or father law, this is a shala for a Rov.
Okay then, let me try to reduce the weight you say I lent to the notion that there can not be a negative side to a chumra:
I hereby state that there can be a negative side to a chumra. I never implied otherwise but if you inferred that I did I hereby formally retract such implication.
In particular, regarding refraining from wearing sunglasses, I have heard that there are some horror stories regarding that conduct.
Perhaps you can post said stories. Besides probably being fascinating, it would certainly demonstrate the point you would like to make clearer. Namely that there are chumros that have a negative side.
Thank you
A horror story from wearing sunglasses probably exists, but there are also probably horror stories from people who did not wear them because of some Chumra, like they were driving without them and the sunning sun (Especially on the snow) got in their eyes and they got into an accident or they just had eye surgery and needed them and they did not want to go outside and answer every yenta’s question why they were wearing them
Just for the record, i do not normally wear Sunglasses as I dont wear any glasses or contacts and the sunglasses hurt my eyes, however when i am driving or sometimes out in the Sun the glare does get to me and I use them
I was once not wearing sunglasses, and I almost squinted.
I know of a very Frum elderly woman who was visiting her grandchildren in Beitar in Eretz Yisrael. She had serious eye problems (glaucoma and others) and it was a bright summer day. She wore her prescription sunglasses when walking outside and was yelled at by some local teenagers and called a Prutzah. Then someone came up to her and took her sunglasses away, saying it’s not proper for a Bas Yisrael to wear them. The sunlight did serious damage to her eyes and her great-grandson (who told me the story) said it was a Nes that she didn’t need emergency surgery to fix what happened. She couldn’t go outside for over a week, though.
That story sounds familiar. I read it in Bubbe Maaisas vol. 3, page 178.
Joseph knows the story isn’t true because he was there when it didn’t happen.
I could give the city and the names of the people involved, if that helps. The city was Beitar. The people involved I really shouldn’t (and am hopefully not allowed to) name.
Sam2: It just proves that people should mind their own business. We are not taking about anything that is harmful and not even against Halacha here, but fools somehow feel the need to police everyone else.
Let’s say for one second, that someone is doing something that is against Halacha. Taking physical action or even berating them is going to change their behavior?
There comes a point where Chumarah’s become the acts of a chamor. It’s chutpah to impose ones chumarah’s on others. At that point, chamor is more appropriate.
Do the actions of these few reshaim somehow represent anything more than their own warped minds and hearts?
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