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A new shtick I c is boys go 2 camp and dont wear tzitzis is this topic ligit
I have heard rabanim say that if one is going to play sports or do manual labor where they will be shvitzing a lot, then it is not mechubadige to do so while wearing tzitzis.
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We are getting “off thread”.
In order to be Mechuyav (obligated) in the Mitzvah of Tzitzis you have to get some enjoyment from the 4 cornered beged (article of clothing) itself.
I heard Rav Shlomo Aviner, a major posek of the chardali (charedi-leaning dati luemi) community in Israel, say that one should always wear tzitzis, even when it is hot — even in the army and during combat.
Every second is a fulfillment of a Mitzvah D’Oraysa. The Tzitzis themselves have no Kedusha as we see we can take them into a bathroom, unlike Tfillin or a sefer Torah. If so, what’s the problem with having a “shvitzy” pair and washing it like we do to our T shirts and sports clothing?
The Gra lamented on is deathbed that here we can fulfill Tzizis for a few kopeks and in the next world we cannot add one Mitzvah for all the money in the world. While alive we can…….. should’t we?
If you’re going to do some form of sport or activity where you would be sweating so much that you would want to be without tzitzis, you are allowed not to wear them.
However, every serious frum rov will simply tell you if you ask him, that in that case, you simply shouldn’t do that sport/activity. Obvious solution.
As for me, there have been times in E”Y on extremely hot days when I went without tzitzis because I literally got sick from the heat quite a few times. I can’t stand heat very well.
This summer I’ll be in Switzerland, walking in the mountains. Depending on the temperature, I’m initially going to keep my tzitzis on as usual. Should it become extremely hot, there is always the option to put them in my backpack.
Josh31: Being (even marginally) protected from the elements by them inherently counts as a benefit, even if it’s very hot out.
Rabbaim: See the first Siman in the Minchas Shlomo. I honestly don’t know what to do with it.
TCG: when it gets too hot, do you take off your undershirt as well? If not, why not buy a pair of Undershirt Tzitzis? Its a undersirt with an “add-on”!
SiDi™
Simple solution. Buy a pair of undershirt tzitzis for those days where you will be sweating up a lot.
If so, what’s the problem with having a “shvitzy” pair and washing it like we do to our T shirts and sports clothing?
I’m not saying those rabanim are right or wrong, but the difference from using the bathroom and playing sports is obvious. Having the use the bathroom is involuntary, but playing sports is voluntary. Obviously you don’t hold that this difference is relevant, and perhaps you are correct, but the point is that there are those who would make the chiluk.
Should it become extremely hot, there is always the option to put them in my backpack.
Doesn’t that contradict what you said earlier: However, every serious frum rov will simply tell you if you ask him, that in that case, you simply shouldn’t do that sport/activity. Obvious solution.
I have heard, although I don’t have a source, that R’ Moshe says you should not wear tzitzis when doing something that will get you all sweaty, such as playing sports.
Some boys go to camp with them and return without them (meaning they’re shoved into their knapsacks).
Whenever there is late afternoon swim, the kids come home in their swim shorts and just throw their t shirts on for cover, without the tzitzis.
“Being (even marginally) protected from the elements by them inherently counts as a benefit, even if it’s very hot out.”
The shirt and undershirt each provide better such protection than the 4 cornered garment. Wearing another layer when it is very hot is akin to eating when you are completely “stuffed” (Achilah Gasah).
No fulfillment of Afikomen on Pesach Seder night and no major violation of Yom Kippur
i once heard a shiur listing all the mekoros that explain the shemira that tzitzis give a person. i remember the maggid shiur almost getting teary when he tried to convey how hard it should be to take them off, even for a good reason. imagine taking off bady armour in a battlefield to relieve yourself. yes, its a good reason and neccessary, but still understood why its a bidieved. so too should be taking off tzitzis.
“Doesn’t that contradict what you said earlier: However, every serious frum rov will simply tell you if you ask him, that in that case, you simply shouldn’t do that sport/activity. Obvious solution.”
No. It’s not a psak – more like advice (that’s how I prefer to interpret it anyway – call me a rosho if you want).
Fact is, most rabbonim I know are on a much, much higher madreiga than lowly me. I’m talking people who haven’t got a clue what “vacation” means or what “bein hazmanim” stands for and where kids have never heard of the word “camp”.
The Tzitz Eliezer has a T’shuvah (one of the first few Simanim in either Chelek 8 or 18, I think) that discusses why one is always obligated to wear Tzitzis. He has another T’shuvah (I don’t remember where, maybe in Chelek 21) that explains that undershirt Tzitzis could actually be quite problematic. I would be very hesitant before making a Baracha on them after I saw that.
Fact is, most rabbonim I know are on a much, much higher madreiga than lowly me. I’m talking people who haven’t got a clue what “vacation” means or what “bein hazmanim” stands for and where kids have never heard of the word “camp”.
Vadei words of the yetzer hara…
“I’m talking people who haven’t got a clue what “vacation” means or what “bein hazmanim” stands for and where kids have never heard of the word “camp”. “
Wow, you are describing a place far more intense than the Slobodka Yeshiva in Europe. Moshe Rabeinu lasted in such a place for only 40 days.
It is not a requirement to wear tzitzis. The actual mitzvah is IF you wear 4 cornered clothing then you must put tzitzis on them. Also if you plan on sweating a lot u should take them off…or wear and undergarment.
The standard practice today is to wear them simply because it is an easy mitzvah to do, not because we are required to do so.
i was present for multiple big poskim of America answering this, as well as been in a camp where they asked one of the gedolim:
1- Def nothing assur whatsoever with wearing them.
2- There is a heter when there is sufficient tzar caused. Machlokes on what qualifies as “sufficient”. This is heter for sports, etc. Not toluy on whether beratzon.
3- To not wear tzitzis stam, though meikar hadin not an aveirah, it is very prob for other reasons, like once e/o is noheg, mystical shmirah, loss of mitzvah, L’maan Tizkiru, etc – no such thing as personal choice.
4- In camp, etc, there is also chinuch issue – big machlokes.
Repharim: That’s not true. Everyone is Mechuyav to wear Tzitzis if able unless there is something extenuating stopping them. See Tzitz Eliezer 8:4 if I recall correctly.
Chacham: Thanks. (I’m honestly quite surprised that I got the Chelek and Siman number correct.)
Not bad. what is the problem with reb shlomo zalman siman 1?
Chacham: Aside from that fact that it’s against Stimas Divrei all Poskim ever (and Mefurash in others too)? The S’vara is flawless. But something must happen in the application because the Maskana is just not tenable.
why not?
Chacham: Well, the Maskana is Tzarich Iyun. But everyone knows that you are allowed to wear Tzitzis in a bathroom. Thus, the idea that it might be Assur just doesn’t work.
(Interestingly enough, I found a T’shuva in the Tzitz Eliezer (somewhere towards the beginning of Chelek 21) that mentions that Tzitzis and Sukkah require a special type of Kavanah to be Yotzei the Mitzvah. It’s not just Kavanah, but you have to remember what the Torah said about them. Which would go very well with this R’ Shlomo Zalman. But it’s still impossible to say that it’s Assur to wear Tzitzis in a bathroom.)
sam2
I once saw an aruch hashulchan that said even according to the maan deamar aino tzurich kavvana by succah everyone agrees from Vehodaata.
Chacham: You mean L’ma’an Yed’u Doroseichem? I think I saw that too. But the Tzitz Eliezer seems to add that to Tzitzis (sort of). But it does raise a problem. Because if R’ Shlomo Zalman’s Safek is correct then any moment you do not have Kavana for the Tzitzis you would be M’vatel an Asei of wearing a 4-cornered Begged without Tzitzis. And that just doesn’t make sense. Chazal have told us to not do a Mitzvah B’sheiv V’al Ta’aseh for much less than that. If that were true we would only wear Tzitzis for T’fillah, if even then.
@Sam2 Sorry to say sam, most people do not know today the difference between what we are REQUIRED to do and what is optional(minhag). I’m not saying tzitzis should not be worn, I wear them everyday and I feel like something is very wrong when i take them off at night if its hot(to which i leave them on unless it gets reallly bad). You get a mitzvah for every second of the day that you wear them…which is something like ~86000 mitzvots per day for just wearing them..but there is no mitzva d’orisa to wear tzitzis, yes many benefits, required? No.
Mesh sports tzitzis.
Repharim: And I’m saying that yes you’re required to. Did you look up the T’shuvah that Chacham so nicely linked for everyone?
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